Depression Learning

Dear Stewart (SNA)

Question:

And if I weren’t deep in the pits tonight, I’d flirt you again. Now * that * ought to make you feel better. Then perhaps it’s my turn to bat MY eyes.  ;-)

Wow. I thought you’d feel better because I wasn’t flirting with you. BTW, nice eyes. Actually, I’m feeling okay tonight.  Wish you were feeling the same.  Hope you can get unstuck.

Thanks, I’m a bit better this morning. It’ll happen, it always does. There’s got to be a morning after… Stuck

Response:

Anyway, I just thought I’d share my experience.  You do what works for you. — Melissa

I’m glad to hear it works for you. We all experience good and bad from different things.For example meds. Prozac is the wonder drug for so many yet almost killed me. That’s the hard part about treating depression, different things work for different people. It would be so much easier if they came out with one simple yellow happy pill with a smile face that we have to take once a year and we’d all be fine. What a dream. Mary Beth

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – ANyways, I couldn’t have put it better than "Pull yourself up by the bootstraps" and felt I was being told that I can make myself all better by changing my thoughts. This sounds like cognitive therapy. Which apparently is useful for many people. But for hardcore ASDers like us, it’s insulting. Stuck It was cogintive therapy but I am wondering if this can help people with a true illness or disorder. Is this just helpful for people with situational or everyday depression? That’s the way I took it. It was insulting to me. I have no clue why my doctor thought this would be helpful to me. I’ll find out this week though. I’ll give him the book. Mary Beth

Combined with meds, yes it can help.  True illnesses and disorders can cause the same kind of cognitive distortions that lower grade or situational depression can cause.  It’s just a way to retrain your brain. — Melissa "So Rita and I decided that the most subversive, revolutionary thing I could do was to show up for my life and not be ashamed."                                          –Anne Lamott

Response:

Hello, I actually ran through your book list because my doctor and I were talking about books. I have read A LOT of books too. He told me that I should RUN to the bookstore and get "The Feeling Good Handbook" by David Burns. I got so angry reading this book. It made me sick and I was curious what you had to say about it. I confess I delete your book list because quite frankly, I have a ton myself. I peeked to see if you too had read this one. I disagreed stongly the main point being that my feelings determine my moods. I believe strongly my moods determine my feelings. ANyways, I couldn’t have put it better than "Pull yourself up by the bootstraps" and felt I was being told that I can make myself all better by changing my thoughts. ugh, I hated it. Mary Beth

I’ve never looked at the workbook, but I have "Feeling Good" and I’m currently seeing a cognitive therapist.  It’s not simply a matter of "pull yourself up by your bootstraps."  It’s a way to interrupt and retrain your brain.  Your mind constantly gives you messages, sometimes faster than you’re aware of them.  The idea is that those thoughts and reactions to things affect your mood.  Like one of my worst ones is thinking "should" about stuff.  "I *should* be doing something productive"  "I *shouldn’t* be sitting here watching TV." It sets up a feeling of guilt in my head that ultimately makes me feel worse.   Or if you think "I’m a loser, I’ll never be good at anything."  Well, number one, "loser" is a very negative and emotionally charged label (which I use for myself BTW) which is guaranteed to make you feel crummy.  And then the word "never" is what they call an "overgeneralization".  It’s simply not true that somebody will "never be good at anything."  Everybody’s good at something.  But if you think "never", well then there’s no point in trying anything.  It defeats you before you begin. There’s others, about 8 or 9 in all, I think.  They’re called "cognitive distortions," errors in thinking that can cause you to feel depressed and discouraged. There’s never been any suggestion in my therapy that this is the magic bullet, or a "pull yourself up by your bootstraps" kind of thing.  But it definitely works for some people.  I’ve felt for a long time now that the way I think of myself was problematic.  I know in my head that my view of myself didn’t jibe with what others said about me. This therapist knows that there’s messy old pain going on under all this, and he can help me deal with that too. Anyway, I just thought I’d share my experience.  You do what works for you. — Melissa "So Rita and I decided that the most subversive, revolutionary thing I could do was to show up for my life and not be ashamed."                                          –Anne Lamott

Response:

I liked the book; although I agree its reach is limited.  I view it as a useful tool when the meds are in place and things are starting to get better.  My doc described it to me by saying that since I’ve always been depressed, I’ve learned to see things through a depressed filter. He can fix the chemical imbalance, but it would take me to fix the broken thought process. So, once I was successfully medicated, I found it very helpful. Of course, I understand meds don’t help everyone and I don’t think the book would’ve been as helpful without the meds.  It’s part of the whole picture… like you can’t healthfully lose weight without eating right and exercising. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – ANyways, I couldn’t have put it better than "Pull yourself up by the bootstraps" and felt I was being told that I can make myself all better by changing my thoughts. This sounds like cognitive therapy. Which apparently is useful for many people. But for hardcore ASDers like us, it’s insulting. Stuck It was cogintive therapy but I am wondering if this can help people with a true illness or disorder. Is this just helpful for people with situational or everyday depression? That’s the way I took it. It was insulting to me. I have no clue why my doctor thought this would be helpful to me. I’ll find out this week though. I’ll give him the book. Mary Beth

Response:

Other times, all of the self-coaching in the world doesn’t seem to help me avoid falling into a pit of darkness.

What a coincidence. That’s exactly where I am right now. So am I clinically depressed?  I isolate most of the time.  Sometimes I have suicidal thoughts.  Sometimes I feel numb.  Sometimes I feel a vague sense of melancholy.  Sometimes I feel profoundly sad.  And yes, sometimes I feel okay.  Sometimes I even feel downright happy.

Isolate, yes. Suicidal thought, yes. Not numb enough. Deep sense of melancholy. Profoundly sad. I think I’ve felt OK and/or downright happy, but tonight those are just memories. And the docs call me clinically depressed. Am I clinically depressed?  The "professionals" say I am, and I tell myself that I am.  But I hear of others who can’t get out of bed for days, and this doesn’t happen to me.  Could it be that I can’t even get depression right? Sometimes I get depressed by wondering if I’m "really" depressed.  Does this make sense?

It sounds like "My dog’s smaller than your dog; therefore I’m inadequate." Nah nah — you not as good at depression as I am. Does it make sense that I sometimes feel terribly inadequate because I’ve always been too afraid to take my own life?

Been there. A very healthy inadequacy. I guess I suffer from depression.

Based on your self-described symptoms, I agree. Please pay my secretary on your way out. And if I weren’t deep in the pits tonight, I’d flirt you again. Now * that * ought to make you feel better. Stuck

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – ANyways, I couldn’t have put it better than "Pull yourself up by the bootstraps" and felt I was being told that I can make myself all better by changing my thoughts. This sounds like cognitive therapy. Which apparently is useful for many people. But for hardcore ASDers like us, it’s insulting. Stuck It was cogintive therapy but I am wondering if this can help people with a true illness or disorder. Is this just helpful for people with situational or everyday depression? That’s the way I took it. It was insulting to me. I have no clue why my doctor thought this would be helpful to me. I’ll find out this week though.

Cognitive therapy can help with negative thought patterns. But if negative thought patterns are not the primary or only cause, then it’s a tad bit less useful. Nice boots, MB. Stuck

Response:

I’m feeling a bit more like a Fruit Loop, myself. Or maybe a Grape Nut.

I’m a Lucky Charm!!! Naomi D.

Allan To have doubted one’s own first principles is the mark of a civilized man  - Oliver Wendell Holmes The animals of the world exist for their own reasons. They were not made for humans any more than black people were made for white, or women created for men. – Alice Walker homepage:  members.xoom.com/vegboy

Response:

I’m feeling a bit more like a Fruit Loop, myself. Or maybe a Grape Nut. Naomi D. I’m a frosted flake! Mary Beth

you guys are lucky….man I feel like I’m shredded wheat… punk Get it while you can – Janis

Response:

Hello, I actually ran through your book list because my doctor and I were talking about books. I have read A LOT of books too. He told me that I should RUN to the bookstore and get "The Feeling Good Handbook" by David Burns. I got so angry reading this book. It made me sick and I was curious what you had to say about it. I confess I delete your book list because quite frankly, I have a ton myself. I peeked to see if you too had read this one. I disagreed stongly the main point being that my feelings determine my moods. I believe strongly my moods determine my feelings. ANyways, I couldn’t have put it better than "Pull yourself up by the bootstraps" and felt I was being told that I can make myself all better by changing my thoughts.  ugh, I hated it.  Mary Beth

Yeah, this sort of "cognitive-behavioral" stuff is just not my "style". The therapist my wife was seeing for a little while recommended this book to her, and it is actually a little more her style.  I know it has a lot to offer for a lot of people.  And it might even have a fair amount to offer me, if I could just sort of skim through it with a large rock (instead of a grain) of salt.  But basically, I could only read a little bit of it.   I liked reading about the different ways of thinking and how they can cause problems.  Like "all or none" thinking.  That’s one of the things my wife ALWAYS does.  But I NEVER do it!!!  :-)   And I actually like the concept of cognitive conscious thinking feeding back and altering moods and feelings.  I think it can happen.  I think it can.  I think it can.  I think it can. But I just am not really convinced of it.  I think the moods/emotions/feelings always come first.  In other words, if you are "of the mood" to be helped by thinking good thoughts, then thinking good thoughts can make you feel good.  But I thinkn the conducive mood was there first.  Not the thought. You know, the funny thing was that I was just thinking about this sort of stuff this morning while in the car.  But whenever I start to think about this sort of stuff, I think myself into a knot (or was that a not??). Sincerely Stewart — The Metaphor Man  *and*  The Great Defender of the Self (remove the SPAMBLOCK) Please send me an e-mail copy of your posted response.

Response:

x-no-archive: yes Actually, I think Rice Krispies would be better for my depression than this book. At least it will add some snap crackle pop to my life. I’m feeling a bit more like a Fruit Loop, myself. Or maybe a Grape Nut. Naomi D.

I’m a frosted flake! Mary Beth

Response:

x-no-archive: yes – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I actually was getting pissed off and thinking of calling my doctor and saying if you believe this shit, I need a new doctor! I know the feeling. I had this doctor for about 5 years whom I really loved, actually. In all that time she only recommended one book to me and I didn’t like it. I remember feeling *so* disappointed. But this has appened to me with friends too. Maybe you never know what it was about the book that might have appealed to them; what they might have been reading just before that, for which that book was a corrective. I know that at times I’ve felt like I could change my life based on a cereal ad or something which just seemed to speak to me at the time. Naomi D.

Actually, I think Rice Krispies would be better for my depression than this book. At least it will add some snap crackle pop to my life. Mary Beth

Response:

ANyways, I couldn’t have put it better than "Pull yourself up by the bootstraps" and felt I was being told that I can make myself all better by changing my thoughts. This sounds like cognitive therapy. Which apparently is useful for many people. But for hardcore ASDers like us, it’s insulting. Stuck

It was cogintive therapy but I am wondering if this can help people with a true illness or disorder. Is this just helpful for people with situational or everyday depression? That’s the way I took it. It was insulting to me. I have no clue why my doctor thought this would be helpful to me. I’ll find out this week though. I’ll give him the book. Mary Beth

Response:

ANyways, I couldn’t have put it better than "Pull yourself up by the bootstraps" and felt I was being told that I can make myself all better by changing my thoughts.

This sounds like cognitive therapy. Which apparently is useful for many people. But for hardcore ASDers like us, it’s insulting. Stuck

Response:

x-no-archive: yes He told me that I should RUN to the bookstore and get "The Feeling Good Handbook" by David Burns. I got so angry reading this book Yech. My sister bought this book and left it lying around & I thought it was awful. I didn’t ask her how she liked it, deliberately, cause if she liked it and thought it was helpful I didn’t want to get in  an argument. But yech. Naomi D.

I actually was getting pissed off and thinking of calling my doctor and saying if you believe this shit, I need a new doctor! Mary Beth

Response:

Hello, I actually ran through your book list because my doctor and I were talking about books. I have read A LOT of books too. He told me that I should RUN to the bookstore and get "The Feeling Good Handbook" by David Burns. I got so angry reading this book. It made me sick and I was curious what you had to say about it. I confess I delete your book list because quite frankly, I have a ton myself. I peeked to see if you too had read this one. I disagreed stongly the main point being that my feelings determine my moods. I believe strongly my moods determine my feelings. ANyways, I couldn’t have put it better than "Pull yourself up by the bootstraps" and felt I was being told that I can make myself all better by changing my thoughts. ugh, I hated it. Mary Beth

Response:

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