Depression Learning

concert trigger crash

Question:

Dammit Shipwreck, why didn’t you tell us you were going? I would have gone with you.

 um….well, i did, i don’t think anyone saw the post though….what was bad is that it was a 21+ show,  i felt like i stuck out so much, because i look like i’m 15 and it makes it worse when i’m sitting alone not talking to anybody.   Nothing better than a live show. Hell Im going to see Poison tomorrow in Hershey Pa.  Tagging along with a friend and his wife.

 yes, i know there is nothing better than a live show, and that’s why i want to go to concerts, but i have nobody to go with, and i’m not sure if going is worth what happens to me.  There are 4 concerts i want to go to next month, i hope i have better luck with those…. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – First off I have been there.  Totally. I look at things in a way that sounds healthy, but sometimes, I don’t know.  I look at things as either I am gonna do them, or I am not.  I don’t let things stand in the way.  If there is a concert that I want to see and no one to go with I either say I will go or I won’t.  I don’t say, I cant find anyone to go. The result is, well unhealthy.  A bunch of years ago my main man Ozzy Osbourne came to town.  I had waited all my life to see him.  I am not kidding, when I was a kid I idolized him.  He did that No More Tours thing and I fell for it.  I was convinced he had retired and I would never see him. So he announces that he is gonna do another tour and he ends up at Hershey.  A pack of wild Al Gores couldnt have held me back.  I couldnt find anyone to go with.  No one. So I went by myself. Damn that was a weird nite.  When Korn or Ozzy were on stage playing I was too distracted to be depressed, but the second the lights would come up, there I would be all by myself.  That was a product of my ‘do or don’t’ philosophy. I had decided to see Ozzy and nothing was an obstacle. Anyways I am not sure if it is really healthy.

 that’s how i kind of see things, a lot of these bands i see i might never get the chance to see them again, so i force myself to go.  It’s not so bad once the music starts, but it’s those awful moments before it starts or inbetween bands that really get to me. I don’t suppose you live anywere near York PA do you?  If you ever want to see a live show just say the word.

 nope, i live in WI…. And that is the other thing.  Dude I don’t mean to be an asshole, or point out the obvious, but I have to. Be honest with yourself. Did you bother to ask anyone if they wanted to go?

 well, i would have if i knew anyone to ask. I’m really isolated and don’t have any friends or anyone i could ask. If i had someone to do things with a lot of my problems would be easier to deal with, and that is one of the major problems for me, finding someone to do things with. Once you find someone, it makes it a lot easier to meet other people and do things. -ship – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – See here is something a bit different.  I love white water rafting. My Dad and I have been doing it together since I was a Freshman, I am 27 now, he is 52. For as much as I enjoy going with my Dad, and he is in great shape, hell if I am in half the shape when I am his age Ill be happy, anyways for as much as I like going with him it gets old.  I want to go with my friends, do some drinking the night before and lead the new people on the mighty Youghigeny. Thing is this, out of all my friends all but one of them have no interest in rafting.  None.  The one that claims to has a history of backing out at the last minute. You would think it would put a damper on things for me. However once or twice a year I talk people I work with into going. And every year I do this I find myself taking people down the river that always wanted to do this, but would have lived there entire lives without it if I hadn’t approached them.  One guy is finally devoloping into a regular rafting buddy. Thing about this sport is this.  It can get so scary that you have to sit on your first experience for a while before you realize you are hooked. Anyways if I never asked, or thought people would approach me, I would have to go rafting with my Dad forever. Just something to think about. So dude, if you are anywhere near me and you ever want to take in a live show, or do some white water, you know where to turn. I am asking now.

Response:

Dammit Shipwreck, why didn’t you tell us you were going? I would have gone with you.  Nothing better than a live show. Hell Im going to see Poison tomorrow in Hershey Pa.  Tagging along with a friend and his wife. First off I have been there.  Totally.   I look at things in a way that sounds healthy, but sometimes, I don’t know.  I look at things as either I am gonna do them, or I am not.  I don’t let things stand in the way.  If there is a concert that I want to see and no one to go with I either say I will go or I won’t.  I don’t say, I cant find anyone to go.   The result is, well unhealthy.  A bunch of years ago my main man Ozzy Osbourne came to town.  I had waited all my life to see him.  I am not kidding, when I was a kid I idolized him.  He did that No More Tours thing and I fell for it.  I was convinced he had retired and I would never see him. So he announces that he is gonna do another tour and he ends up at Hershey.  A pack of wild Al Gores couldnt have held me back.  I couldnt find anyone to go with.  No one. So I went by myself.   Damn that was a weird nite.  When Korn or Ozzy were on stage playing I was too distracted to be depressed, but the second the lights would come up, there I would be all by myself.  That was a product of my ‘do or don’t’ philosophy. I had decided to see Ozzy and nothing was an obstacle. Anyways I am not sure if it is really healthy. I don’t suppose you live anywere near York PA do you?  If you ever want to see a live show just say the word.   And that is the other thing.  Dude I don’t mean to be an asshole, or point out the obvious, but I have to.   Be honest with yourself. Did you bother to ask anyone if they wanted to go? See here is something a bit different.  I love white water rafting. My Dad and I have been doing it together since I was a Freshman, I am 27 now, he is 52.   For as much as I enjoy going with my Dad, and he is in great shape, hell if I am in half the shape when I am his age Ill be happy, anyways for as much as I like going with him it gets old.  I want to go with my friends, do some drinking the night before and lead the new people on the mighty Youghigeny. Thing is this, out of all my friends all but one of them have no interest in rafting.  None.  The one that claims to has a history of backing out at the last minute.   You would think it would put a damper on things for me. However once or twice a year I talk people I work with into going. And every year I do this I find myself taking people down the river that always wanted to do this, but would have lived there entire lives without it if I hadn’t approached them.  One guy is finally devoloping into a regular rafting buddy.   Thing about this sport is this.  It can get so scary that you have to sit on your first experience for a while before you realize you are hooked. Anyways if I never asked, or thought people would approach me, I would have to go rafting with my Dad forever. Just something to think about. So dude, if you are anywhere near me and you ever want to take in a live show, or do some white water, you know where to turn.   I am asking now.

Response:

 okay, so i went to that concert tonight…..sigh….not so sure it was a good idea….trigger city. It was at a bar, it was quite crowded and i was just so nervous and freaking out. A few times i thought i was just going to lose it and break down and cry. Almost everyone there knew each other and was talking to everbody else…..there i was, sitting at the bar just trying to find something to look at hearing all the conversations going on around me, seeing all the good looking girls talking to their friends….i felt so alone, i wish i could have just asked the bartender for a shot of arsenic. I couldn’t really enjoy the music all that much, as my mind was just racing, and i was too aware of everything else going on around me.  I left halfway through the last bands set….my parents had to pick me up, which really sucks. I so want to just die right now.  I see all those young people having fun, knowing i’ve never done the things they have, and aren’t doing the things they are now, and by the time i am well enough to do any of those things, i will have missed out on a lot of things and i will be expected to have a job and more responsibility.  I hate them, why did they get to have fun when they were younger, why do they get to have a good time now.  what the hell did i do that i didn’t get any of that, why do i have to live the rest of my life regretting and knowing what i missed out on. it’s so fucking not worth it, why can’t i just die and get out of the stupid godforsaken hellish life that i have now…..can’t even call it a life…..just existence….why do i have to be so y isn’t there ever anyone here for me -ship

Response:

I so want to just die right now.  I see all those young people having  fun,   knowing i’ve never  done the things they have, and aren’t doing the things they are now, and by the time i am well enough to do any of those things,  i will have missed out on a lot of things and i will be expected to have a  job  and more responsibility.  

This could be true.  It’s also possible that you will appreciate the things you have more than someone who has never struggled.  You may have more self knowledge, greater personal depth and more compassion for others.  There is a reason why people say that struggle and suffering build character –because it can (but it’s up to you.  It doesn’t just happen) No one knows the future.  You don’t know if those people that you feel are so lucky now will even be alive tomorrow.  If they will have happy or failed relationships.  If they will do work they love or work that demeans them.  If they will have children die, or get some terrible disease. You also don’t know your future.  You may be depressed now, and in a few years feel infinitely better.  Your depression could cause you to turn right instead of left someday and you’ll meet the perfect person for you to be with.  You don’t *know* the future. But imagining that you do, in fact, know the future and it’s going to be hell is pretty much guaranteed to depress you. I understand the "feeling" of hopelessness and dispair, but you really do not know what life has in store for you, or for anyone else. I haven’t read you before, so I don’t know your background.  Are you on meds right now?  Have you been in therapy or to a Pdoc for a diagnosis? — greg :: Bodhisattva with a real bad attitude

Response:

You’re not alone dude, sometimes being in a crowd makes you feel lonely but you have to remember that all of us are here for ya! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –  okay, so i went to that concert tonight…..sigh….not so sure it was a good idea….trigger city. It was at a bar, it was quite crowded and i was just so nervous and freaking out. A few times i thought i was just going to lose it and break down and cry. Almost everyone there knew each other and was talking to everbody else…..there i was, sitting at the bar just trying to find something to look at hearing all the conversations going on around me, seeing all the good looking girls talking to their friends….i felt so alone, i wish i could have just asked the bartender for a shot of arsenic. I couldn’t really enjoy the music all that much, as my mind was just racing, and i was too aware of everything else going on around me.  I left halfway through the last bands set….my parents had to pick me up, which really sucks. I so want to just die right now.  I see all those young people having fun, knowing i’ve never done the things they have, and aren’t doing the things they are now, and by the time i am well enough to do any of those things, i will have missed out on a lot of things and i will be expected to have a job and more responsibility.  I hate them, why did they get to have fun when they were younger, why do they get to have a good time now.  what the hell did i do that i didn’t get any of that, why do i have to live the rest of my life regretting and knowing what i missed out on. it’s so fucking not worth it, why can’t i just die and get out of the stupid godforsaken hellish life that i have now…..can’t even call it a life…..just existence….why do i have to be so y isn’t there ever anyone here for me -ship

– "Anything is hard to find, when you will not open your eyes."

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Ship, I didn’t have a normal puberty due to circumstances outside myself. So I respond to posts like yours because I have an idea what it feels like. I have the benefit of knowing how things can turn out and how it is possible to catch up on the ‘young people’ things you’re missing now. But I’m getting a bit tired of responding and trying to relate or encourage, and then either see more words on how nothing is possible for you or seeing my responses apparently go unnoticed. Like yesterday when you wrote about whether to go to this concert. All you do is come back and start a new message telling that *of course* is was awful and *of course* you’re alone. You just seem to plough on and on affirming how empty your life is and how nobody is ever there for you. I’m thinking that every time someone here responds to you, they are there for you in a way. What I’m starting to feel is that you don’t reach out yourself, by responding to a simple music question maybe or something about computers. It makes me wonder if it isn’t related to the being alone, because I myself find it harder and harder to keep trying to make contact with you when everything I say keeps falling flat. No hard feelings, just something you might think about. Syrinx

  When i post, i am usually just writing it for myself, and am not expecting any replies, i just need to get some things out of my head sometimes, and it is not really directed as an actual question to anyone. I know it is nice when i do get replies and sometimes i do just need to be reminded what i need to do. I know that is how some other people work as well, they need to be shown many times until they can do it on their own. I know a lot of people get annoyed with that and lose patience, as i have had many experiences with those types of people, and have known very few people who do understand this and take the time to stick with it and have a lot of patience with people like me. I am doing things to try to improve my life, but sometimes it just becomes too much and i have to question everything again. I’m just playing the waiting game right now, I’ve done what little i can do, and try to keep at it, and i’m just waiting for something to happen.  I probably should be more aggressive in my attempts, but the one thing i don’t need right now is anymore failures, as that would just drag me back down again.  I know failure is a part of life and that i have to accept it, but i really don’t know anything other than failure and i am choosing what battles i can so i can have at least a little success. I get discouraged easily, especially when i do something and don’t get some kind of response right away, such as meeting new people or looking for a job or whatever. I know what i have to do, it’s just doing it and keeping at it is the problem.  When i ask why isn’t there anyone here for me, i am talking about in RL, in my city, someone who could be near me physically.  I know there are people online for me, and while i do appreciate it, it just isn’t enough for me and is not what i need right now, i mean, i know they really can’t do anything to help me other than give me encouraging words and ideas, and that’s not what i’m looking for, but it’s all i can get right now.  I do read all the replies i get, and sometimes i may miss some of them, but for all the ones i do read, i take them into consideration.  The hard part is getting myself to act on them, sometimes i need someone to give me that little extra push, but there is nobody in RL to do that for me.  I do try to respond to different posts on music or computers, but i don’t post if i know nothing of the topic, or i feel i don’t have anything useful to add. That goes for most posts, which is why i hardly ever reply to any. I feel i have nothing useful to add, so i don’t. -ship

Response:

   I just found the message you replied to and wrote a reply back, it’s under that header, sorry i missed it yesterday…..i need to start looking for replies more carefully…. -ship – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Well, I did. And I responded. As to this thread. Syrinx  sorry, i think i missed it….not ignoring you or anything, sometimes one just slips past me. -ship

Response:

shipwrecked wrote why isn’t there ever anyone here for me

Ship, I didn’t have a normal puberty due to circumstances outside myself. So I respond to posts like yours because I have an idea what it feels like. I have the benefit of knowing how things can turn out and how it is possible to catch up on the ‘young people’ things you’re missing now. But I’m getting a bit tired of responding and trying to relate or encourage, and then either see more words on how nothing is possible for you or seeing my responses apparently go unnoticed. Like yesterday when you wrote about whether to go to this concert. All you do is come back and start a new message telling that *of course* is was awful and *of course* you’re alone. You just seem to plough on and on affirming how empty your life is and how nobody is ever there for you. I’m thinking that every time someone here responds to you, they are there for you in a way. What I’m starting to feel is that you don’t reach out yourself, by responding to a simple music question maybe or something about computers. It makes me wonder if it isn’t related to the being alone, because I myself find it harder and harder to keep trying to make contact with you when everything I say keeps falling flat. No hard feelings, just something you might think about. Syrinx

Response:

shipwrecked  um….well, i did, i don’t think anyone saw the post though

Well, I did. And I responded. As to this thread. Syrinx

Response:

shipwrecked wrote "Syrinx" wrote you are having an effect on people. i know, that’s why i try not to post stuff like that too often…..unlike some people on asd (that shall remain nameless) who post stuff constantly without thinking of what they are doing.

Only it’s not the effect I was talking about. You needn’t worry about how you ‘trigger’ people, you need to worry about the one-sidedness of when they respond and how you respond in return. Those people are trying to connect with you and I have started wondering whether you notice, [ ] well, i guess not, i don’t really catch on to things very quickly, that is another aspect of my problems….there probably are people trying to make contact with me in RL and on here, and i’m just not noticing. It’s not that i’m ignoring them, but i am just blind to some things i guess, and people need to be up front with me.

So I wasn’t far off when I started thinking your aloneness isn’t only due to others. It isn’t up to people to be up front, if I were you I’d try to get better at noticing these people, for my own benefit. can’t help but starting to see how little you notice the people online. Yes, you see their encouragement and suggestions, but you don’t seem to see them as people just as real as you. I know they are real people, i just try not to let myself see them that way,

Then it’s true what you wrote earlier. You post only for yourself and I’m responding in vain because you’re not going to let it affect you by thinking I’m not real. You know, responding thoughtfully in a language that is not your own takes time and effort. I wish it’d had been clear to me. partly because i don’t think they can do anything for me

They might, and you might for them. and i guess ifi did it would overwhelm me.

So I’ll be overwhelming you if I keep this up, reacting personally I mean. Okay, I don’t want you to feel overwhelmed, it wasn’t my intent to do that. What kind of contact are you suggesting? I guess i’m willing to try anything.

What I’m suggesting all along: practicing contact with us, people on usenet. But I gather from your response you expected something bigger and I’m sorry I disappointed you. I don’t think anyone can do that for you, shake you out of this, not as long as you expect so much from the outside and so little from yourself. For you, all the replies might be for you or about you, and in that sense you cannot use them. What if you were to walk along a little with the writers, practice a little give and take? [ ] I wish i could do that, it’s not that easy for me, i feel very threatened by other people, when i get involved with someone else, i tend to get a little too involved and focus too much on the relationship until it just falls apart.

I understand that last part, it’s partly due to the not being used or hardened to it. But some time you’ve got to start somewhere, and once again, I mention us, usenet, asd. As for the push….the main one has to come from inside, but a little outside influence can make all the difference.

I’m sorry you expect so much from the outside, no sarcasm. It’s not going to happen, ship, I wish you would know that as much as I do. If you keep waiting and hoping, it’s time wasted not venturing out yourself, not growing independent. Sorry if anything I said came across as pushy. I reacted to your posts thinking you could use some support, I recognized some of your things from my own youth. Some of the times I tried to cheer you up or get you interested in things. It doesn’t seem to do either of us any good. I hope one day you’ll find some nice people when you’re ready for it. Things can and will change Syrinx

Response:

This could be true.  It’s also possible that you will appreciate the things you have more than someone who has never struggled.  You may have more self knowledge, greater personal depth and more compassion for others.  There is a reason why people say that struggle and suffering build character –because it can (but it’s up to you.  It doesn’t just happen)

  yes, i know, but sometimes i would just give all that up to have what i lost. Knowledge and awareness comes at a price and sometimes you aren’t given a choice and it is thrust upon you. I know i have to and will deal with it, i’m paying the price right now, and sometimes i just don’t think it’s worth it. No one knows the future.  You don’t know if those people that you feel are so lucky now will even be alive tomorrow.  If they will have happy or failed relationships.  If they will do work they love or work that demeans them.  If they will have children die, or get some terrible disease.

 yeah, but in the meantime it sucks for me. You also don’t know your future.  You may be depressed now, and in a few years feel infinitely better.  Your depression could cause you to turn right instead of left someday and you’ll meet the perfect person for you to be with.  You don’t *know* the future.

 the trouble is making it to the future, it seems, and is so far off right now. It makes it even harder to make it when you don’t have anyone for support. One of the reasons i have to keep myself in control and never break down is that i know i don’t have anyone there for me when i end up falling, and i am afraid that if  i fall and there is nobody there for me, i will do something i really regret. I think that is why i’m not making as much progress as i am. It would help a lot if i could just let go and get everything out. But imagining that you do, in fact, know the future and it’s going to be hell is pretty much guaranteed to depress you. I understand the "feeling" of hopelessness and dispair, but you really do not know what life has in store for you, or for anyone else. I haven’t read you before, so I don’t know your background.  Are you on meds right now?  Have you been in therapy or to a Pdoc for a diagnosis?

  i’m on meds right now. I’ve been on them for about 2 months, but last month i wasn’t taking them on a regular basis and about two weeks ago, i had a nervous breakdown and wound up in the hospital overnight. Since then i’ve been taking them on a regular basis. I just got a new pdoc, and he is really nice, better than the last one i had.  As for a therapist, i am in the middle of getting a new one. The last one i had was really wonderful, and i was really making progress by talking with her, but she had to leave, and the one she suggested i see next didn’t work out, so i’m trying to find another one now….that’s why i really haven’t been doing so well the past few weeks….nobody to talk to. -ship – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – — greg :: Bodhisattva with a real bad attitude

Response:

Wanting revenge usually only lasts as long as it’s affecting you. You were damaged by these people and that’s what’s really hurting. In all, you seem to be saying you lost your trust in people. That’s a very bad thing to happen.

 yep, and that was bad enough to begin with, but this whole thing with my ex-gf, made it even worse, just when i was gaining some of it back, i lost it all again.  I don’t know how to deal with this revenge thing though, it scares me sometimes, if i ever lose control, i’m not sure what would happen. It makes you feel alive, seen and heard. It’s interaction that makes you feel ‘there’.

 sigh….yeah, but i would rather not argue…but that’s the only thing that seems to work. Okay, I’ll challenge you: I feel really hurt that you called Eminem crap. How can you doubt my taste?!? I’m way older than you so I should know what good music is!

 heh…please….i’m not going to get into comparisons and try to prove my point. If i’m feeling rather nice, and don’t want to stir up trouble, i would just say, everyone’s taste is different, and his music just isn’t my thing. It’s like that for everyone. I hope. Some people are addicted to arguments, it’s the only time they feel they exist. You know there are other ways of contact that make you feel alive, like fun and love and doing things together. I know you miss those, it’s hard to keep in touch with yourself without any feedback.

 i’m not addicted to arguments, it’s just the only way i seem to get any reaction. Those other ways of contact that make me feel alive, are pretty much my triggers, so how am i supposed to try to attain those, when in doing so, it makes me a mess…i can’t even think about those things without getting depressed, bitter, and jealous. That’s why i isolate myself, and even that doesn’t work. I can’t even watch tv without it triggering me, my own thoughts do it enough as it is. You’re a scaredycat, did I say that right? There will always be something going wrong, someone said to me yesterday when it did with me. It’s a cliche that doesn’t work right after things went wrong, but be prepared they always will and that the only solution is to find a way to deal with that. I can’t always do it, I’m only and still improving on it.

 i think you said it right….don’t know if you spelled it right   I guess i am though, but with a string of failures, it’s kind of hard not to be this way and not want to try anymore. As for suggestions on what you should do: that’s always something to watch out for. Don’t depend too much on others, you know yourself best. Next step is to get to trust yourself.

 okay, so how do i do those things? Maybe I understand a little, but certainly not all. What you need is walls, good strong barriers to keep the bad ones out. And a little hidden door to let some of the good ones in… only as far as the courtyard of course.

 Well, i did have walls at one time, but i think they started to crumble recently, and i’m not too sure if i want to build them up again if they are going to be like the ones i had up before. I have a boundary problem, I can’t handle many people or I lose part or a lot of my sense of self. Is that in any way comparable?

 yeah, i guess it is kind of comparable…..the losing a sense of self and getting caught up in others….not exactly it, but close enough… Yes, and a little bit of undefined ego too, I think. Ego is self, self as opposed to the outside and others. What distinguishes you from others, that which defines you. It can be all sorts of things, even tast in music.

 yep, undefined ego…..i think that’s pretty much it, i’m just trying to find out what my interests are and what i’m good at.   sigh….feels like i should have learned that stuff a long time ago……i keep feeling like i’m playing catch up. I want to lose that sense of always being behind. Don’t expect something bigger, try and expand it yourself step by step. Define yourself. What you expect is reasonable, only not in the sense that something outside can give it to you. If you keep waiting and hoping, it’s time wasted not venturing out yourself, not growing independent.

 i know it’s wasted time, but at least i am still alive. It’s kind of hard to do other things when i have to keep my thoughts under control…..i can’t count how many times i’ve thought of just overdosing on those sleeping pills today….it would be so easy……it just seems to take too much effort to keep from doing that, i don’t have much leftover for anything else…..sigh….that’s no excuse i guess….i just don’t know why i can’t make myself do anything…. Those things need a foundation if they are to work though, otherwise they’re just ideas. It more and more sounds as if you need to explore the ego or self idea, the defining of you. Ship is somebody, ship is not wholly defined by those who hurt him and not by anyone else either. Others affect you, but you’re at the core an individual with a separate identity from everyone else.

  It’s kind of hard to see that from within though. So that you don’t have to undertake any action because that is frightening… yes, I know that loop

sigh….yep… It’ll be good to have someone to talk these things through out loud, and I hope you find a good therapist soon. It’s not totally useless to think some of these things through yourself though.

 i’ve been doing too much thinking lately, i need to talk out loud to someone else, i think that would help a great deal….it just seems like all the people i could talk like that with have abandoned me.  I tried to call the pdoc to set me up with a therapist there, but he is out until next week, and the other therapist i just had that didn’t work out, hasn’t gotten back to me about seeing another therapist yet. I meanwhile saw you get up, go to bed, get up, go to bed Hope you’re feeling better right now.

….and get up again, and go to bed again, and so on…..i don’t think two sleeping pills were enough, i should probably take three or four next time….taking just two are making me feel all worn out, not totally awake, but not sleepy either…. -ship – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Syrinx

Response:

Only it’s not the effect I was talking about. You needn’t worry about how you ‘trigger’ people, you need to worry about the one-sidedness of when they respond and how you respond in return.

  hmm….yes, i guess i do have to think more about that. So I wasn’t far off when I started thinking your aloneness isn’t only due to others. It isn’t up to people to be up front, if I were you I’d try to get better at noticing these people, for my own benefit.

 well, overall i think it is mainly due to how others have treated me in the past, and how it has affected me. It’s my problem now unfortunately, and i wish that i could get revenge on those people, but i know i have to make more of an effort now than if those things had not been done to me. I think once i deal with those issues, it will be easier for me to take more action on my part. Then it’s true what you wrote earlier. You post only for yourself and I’m responding in vain because you’re not going to let it affect you by thinking I’m not real. You know, responding thoughtfully in a language that is not your own takes time and effort. I wish it’d had been clear to me.

well, no, i don’t know if i can really explain it. When i post "crash" messages, i usually do it because i don’t know what else to do, and i have to get it out, so i suppose then it is for myself, but i guess i am also wanting suggestions for dealing with it and want to know that things will get better. At the time i post those messages, i am cynical, bitter, jealous, and negative, and am probably selfish and only think of myself, but when that time passes, and i read those replies, i do know they are real people responding and that they are trying to help and why they are doing is helping me. If it wasn’t, i wouldn’t continue to reply to your, or anyone else’s messages.  hmm….now that i think about it, i kind of like getting into arguments and having people challenge me, because that makes me want to respond and try to think through things a bit more, and what kind results my action or non actions may have. It seems like kind of a hit or miss thing for me though, sometimes i run from the argument, and sometimes i’ll challenge it, guess it depends on how i am feeling at the time.  The one thing i don’t want to be is selfish, and i try not to be, but sometimes i can’t help it. I guess this is the thing that is confusing me right now. I want to do all i can to help other people, but by doing that i usually end up neglecting myself, or i concentrate on myself and end up neglecting other people. I kind of feel guilty both ways, and it affects the way i deal with people, or how i neglect to deal with people. I guess i have to try to find a way to balance those things. They might, and you might for them.

 i know, but i guess right now i’m just too afraid i might say something wrong, or if i try what someone else suggests i might have another failure. I wish i didn’t think that way, and i’m trying to change that…. So I’ll be overwhelming you if I keep this up, reacting personally I mean. Okay, I don’t want you to feel overwhelmed, it wasn’t my intent to do that.

well, no….this is another thing i guess i have a hard time explaining. I tend not to think in the singular, but in the plural, if that makes any sense……i don’t just think about you and your words, as they aren’t overwhelming, but i think of everyone, and all their words, and that is what is overwhelming.  It’s kind of like an all or nothing thing. I have trouble separating the one from the whole…..i don’t know…..i still don’t think i’m explaining it very well….sigh…. What I’m suggesting all along: practicing contact with us, people on usenet. But I gather from your response you expected something bigger and I’m sorry I disappointed you. I don’t think anyone can do that for you, shake you out of this, not as long as you expect so much from the outside and so little from yourself.

I think the reason i expect so little from myself, is because i don’t think what i do will work or have any effect…..that is one of the issues from the past that i have to work though, getting myself to believe that i can do things for myself…..low self esteem i guess. I do expect something bigger, but i also do know that what i expect is not reasonable, and i have to lower my expectations and work within them instead of just waiting for something else to come along that does meet those expectations. I understand that last part, it’s partly due to the not being used or hardened to it. But some time you’ve got to start somewhere, and once again, I mention us, usenet, asd.

yes, and starting is always the hardest part….at least for me. I’m sorry you expect so much from the outside, no sarcasm. It’s not going to happen, ship, I wish you would know that as much as I do. If you keep waiting and hoping, it’s time wasted not venturing out yourself, not growing independent.

sigh….and i really do know that, it’s just….i don’t know….so difficult for me. It’s easier to just wait and hope, because that doesn’t take any work, courage, change, self esteem, or anything else….and i have very little of any of those things, well, at least i think i have little of those things.  I probably have a lot of those things but i just can’t make myself believe that i do. Sorry if anything I said came across as pushy. I reacted to your posts thinking you could use some support, I recognized some of your things from my own youth. Some of the times I tried to cheer you up or get you interested in things. It doesn’t seem to do either of us any good. I hope one day you’ll find some nice people when you’re ready for it. Things can and will change

 nothing you said came across as pushy, if it did i probably wouldn’t have responded to you at all….and i do want and need support, it’s just that i have to accept what i can get instead of always looking for something more…i guess i kind of see myself as a lost cause, and usually end up being so difficult with people that they give up on me, which i guess is the kind of result i am looking for….them seeing me as a lost cause as well. I guess i manipulate people that way without being aware i am even doing it and when i get that result, i just give up on myself even more, not realizing i caused that result…..or something like that….it’s another think i have to work on….man, do i really need to get another therapist right quick to talk things through with…..i guess i’ll have to call again today or tomorrow….. -ship – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Syrinx

Response:

What I was trying to bring across be showing you my ‘irritation’ was that although you may post only for yourself, you are having an effect on people.

  i know, that’s why i try not to post stuff like that too often…..unlike some people on asd (that shall remain nameless) who post stuff constantly without thinking of what they are doing. Those people are trying to connect with you and I have started wondering whether you notice, not just what they write about you but also what they’re saying about themselves in connection to what you wrote (phew, what a sentence).

 well, i guess not, i don’t really catch on to things very quickly, that is another aspect of my problems….there probably are people trying to make contact with me in RL and on here, and i’m just not noticing. It’s not that i’m ignoring them, but i am just blind to some things i guess, and people need to be up front with me. I don’t doubt your efforts, but I’m wondering if you will notice if anything indeed happens. Things don’t usually change in giant leaps.

 i don’t even know what to look for. I notice some things are changing, but i am probably missing a lot of the little things that are happening.  I guess i would be more encouraged to continue if i could see what things were changing. I know you were talking about real life, I also know you’re not looking for encouragement. Only, when you write about your aloneness, I can’t help but starting to see how little you notice the people online. Yes, you see their encouragement and suggestions, but you don’t seem to see them as people just as real as you. All of this is no criticism, I’m trying to convey that maybe things could change a little if you were to try out a little more contact even if it is only through typed words.

 I know they are real people, i just try not to let myself see them that way, partly because i don’t think they can do anything for me and i guess if i did it would overwhelm me.  What kind of contact are you suggesting? I guess i’m willing to try anything. For you, all the replies might be for you or about you, and in that sense you cannot use them. What if you were to walk along a little with the writers, practice a little give and take? As for the push, we both know that always has to come from within oneself. It’s not easy.

 I wish i could do that, it’s not that easy for me, i feel very threatened by other people, when i get involved with someone else, i tend to get a little too involved and focus too much on the relationship until it just falls apart.  As for the push….the main one has to come from inside, but a little outside influence can make all the difference. -ship – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Syrinx

Response:

shipwrecked wrote – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –   When i post, i am usually just writing it for myself, and am not expecting any replies, i just need to get some things out of my head sometimes, and it is not really directed as an actual question to anyone. I know it is nice when i do get replies and sometimes i do just need to be reminded what i need to do. I know that is how some other people work as well, they need to be shown many times until they can do it on their own. I know a lot of people get annoyed with that and lose patience, as i have had many experiences with those types of people, and have known very few people who do understand this and take the time to stick with it and have a lot of patience with people like me.

What I was trying to bring across be showing you my ‘irritation’ was that although you may post only for yourself, you are having an effect on people. Those people are trying to connect with you and I have started wondering whether you notice, not just what they write about you but also what they’re saying about themselves in connection to what you wrote (phew, what a sentence). I am doing things to try to improve my life, but sometimes it just becomes too much and i have to question everything again. I’m just playing the waiting game right now, I’ve done what little i can do, and try to keep atit, and i’m just waiting for something to happen.

I don’t doubt your efforts, but I’m wondering if you will notice if anything indeed happens. Things don’t usually change in giant leaps.  When i ask why isn’t there anyone here for me, i am talking about in RL, in my city, someone who could be near me physically.  I know there are people online for me, and while i do appreciate it, it just isn’t enough for me and is not what i need right now, i mean, i know they really can’t do anything to help me other than give me encouraging words and ideas, and that’s not what i’m looking for, but it’s all i can get right now.

I know you were talking about real life, I also know you’re not looking for encouragement. Only, when you write about your aloneness, I can’t help but starting to see how little you notice the people online. Yes, you see their encouragement and suggestions, but you don’t seem to see them as people just as real as you. All of this is no criticism, I’m trying to convey that maybe things could change a little if you were to try out a little more contact even if it is only through typed words. I do read all the replies i get, and sometimes i may miss some of them, but for all the ones i do read, i take them into consideration. The hard part is getting myself to act on them, sometimes i need someone to give me that little extra push, but there is nobody in RL to do that for me.

For you, all the replies might be for you or about you, and in that sense you cannot use them. What if you were to walk along a little with the writers, practice a little give and take? As for the push, we both know that always has to come from within oneself. It’s not easy. Syrinx

Response:

Well, I did. And I responded. As to this thread. Syrinx

 sorry, i think i missed it….not ignoring you or anything, sometimes one just slips past me. -ship

Response:

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