ARGH!
Question:
Ron wrote: >>I can’t deny mom’s bad feelings about the breakup Karen Ronan wrote: >Your mom doesn’t care about your breakup as much as she >cares whether you are still manipulable.
LOL. I think there’s a certain amount of good truth in that. CJ
Response:
Ron, This is the first time I have seen the resemblance between your mother and your ex. (or soon to be ex) This may well be the reason you are attracted to women you want to take care of. I think you may need counselling if you are to ever get passed this.. It sounds like a problem you may have always dealt with and not just with the marriage to your wife. Something they may take a lot more work to change than you anticipated. Find a good counselor Ron. Karen
Response:
Drol <D…@bebilith.org> writes: > I had a long conversation with my mother today… She is apparently > suffering from gambling addiction now. She just gambled away $200 she > was saving for a trip, along with her entertainment money for the month > and was trying to borrow $20 from the living expense budget, which my > father wouldn’t let her do, which she got very upset about. "I wish you > wouldn’t treat me like a child", she said to him,
She has a very serious problem. I hope your father can save some of the cash from going down the drain. > Anyway while the two of them argued about it I felt a slow chill creep > over me because as I watched them I saw my wife and I. "I can’t > get out of bed and go to class — I’m DEPRESSED — I have no > WILLPOWER…" Except Dad has become a real hardass with her about this > stuff because, I suppose, he has had to to keep his sanity over the > years.
Maybe Dad has a few boundaries–you need some, too. > Mom claims she is suffering from depression because of me and my wife > breaking up — and that gambling is the one thing she can do to escape > from her problems and bad feelings. I asked her if she had told her > therapist about it and she said no, she didn’t want to admit to having a > gambling problem. Then when my father left the room she started crying > and saying that he (my father) would be better off without her and that > she was "worthless".
Don’t waste your time getting emotional over this. It is all a sham. > A friend of mine told me that it would be best if my wife and I did > totally separate holidays for a couple of years and if we were still able > to be friends, then maybe it would be OK for her to come over (especially > if we both had other lovers at the time). ???
I wouldn’t attempt to make a decision about the next few years. Try one holiday at a time. > This is hard and confusing and part of me feels like crap because I am > blaming myself for my mother’s problems but another part of me is saying > "HELL NO this is NOT my fault, my mother is making HER OWN DECISIONS and > SHE has to deal with the consequences." I have seen so much usage of > illness in my family as a tool to manipulate people that it is making ME > sick.
Your mother is a con artist. Read "THE MASK OF SANITY" by Hervey Cleckley and you will see her on every page. It might help you tremendously. >I can’t deny mom’s bad feelings about the breakup
Your mom doesn’t care about your breakup as much as she cares whether you are still manipulable. >I’m *SICK*!!! Take me shopping!" "I don’t want > you dating her — it makes me *SICK*!!!" "If you don’t move back home > I’ll get *SICK*!!! I’LL DO IT!!!"
Let her get sick. Amazingly, she will survive! Hang in there, Karen
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Drol wrote in message <3A066D62.1…@bebilith.org>… >I had a long conversation with my mother today… She is apparently >suffering from gambling addiction now. She just gambled away $200 she >was saving for a trip, along with her entertainment money for the month >and was trying to borrow $20 from the living expense budget, which my >father wouldn’t let her do, which she got very upset about. "I wish you >wouldn’t treat me like a child", she said to him, and I had to agree with >him that she WANTED him to treat her that way as he pointed out earlier >in the week she had ASKED him to hide the $200 she was saving because she >told him she couldn’t be "trusted" with it. He didn’t hide it and she >gambled it away and then felt bad about it. She says she has "no >willpower". He insisted that she NOT take money out of the living >expense funds and gamble it away, even if she was going to pay it back in >a few days with money she earned, especially if she was going to feel >guilty about it later. >Anyway while the two of them argued about it I felt a slow chill creep >over me because as I watched them I saw my wife and I. "I can’t >get out of bed and go to class — I’m DEPRESSED — I have no >WILLPOWER…" Except Dad has become a real hardass with her about this >stuff because, I suppose, he has had to to keep his sanity over the >years. >Mom claims she is suffering from depression because of me and my wife >breaking up — and that gambling is the one thing she can do to escape >from her problems and bad feelings. I asked her if she had told her >therapist about it and she said no, she didn’t want to admit to having a >gambling problem. Then when my father left the room she started crying >and saying that he (my father) would be better off without her and that >she was "worthless". >I think this is all because of the holidays coming up… She has been >inviting my wife to every function (even Halloween, which is big at my >parents’ house and to be honest I didn’t mind her being there this year). > I am planning to spend Christmas with my sister in another state just to >get away from the situation for this year, and now she (my mother) thinks >that she has been "driving me away" by inviting my wife over all the time >and it feels like these problems of hers are designed to guilt me into >getting back together with my wife? >A friend of mine told me that it would be best if my wife and I did >totally separate holidays for a couple of years and if we were still able >to be friends, then maybe it would be OK for her to come over (especially >if we both had other lovers at the time). ???
————–I totally agree with your friend…………….. >This is hard and confusing and part of me feels like crap because I am >blaming myself for my mother’s problems but another part of me is saying >"HELL NO this is NOT my fault, my mother is making HER OWN DECISIONS and >SHE has to deal with the consequences." I have seen so much usage of >illness in my family as a tool to manipulate people that it is making ME >sick. I can’t deny mom’s bad feelings about the breakup but I know if I >fall into the trap of making decisions based on keeping the "sickies" >happy then that is a LIFESTYLE of caretaking I will be getting into for >the rest of my days. "I’m *SICK*!!! Take me shopping!" "I don’t want >you dating her — it makes me *SICK*!!!" "If you don’t move back home >I’ll get *SICK*!!! I’LL DO IT!!!"
——————–This reminds me of my mother……She got really depressed after my divorce too. BUT……….don’t let her manipulate you like this. It’s not your fault she feels this way. Like you say, she is making her own decisions. Let me tell you, it’s easy for me to say this to you;…..but the truth is, that I STILL feel guilty about my mom…..LOL……although I KNOW, I shouldn’t. Good luck. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Sorry, ranting. > – Ron ^*^
Response:
Ron, Do not let your mother coax you into believing you are part of her problem, she is an adult and has made her own decision to gamble. I have two sister inlaws who are adults with children. In all the years I have known them, you can not have a conversation with them without them telling you,"If my parents had not have done this, I would be this by now". You reach a certain point in your life when you can no longer blame your past or blame others for what your life has become, they know right from wrong and have made a conscious decision to do wrong. I think it is a very good idea to go to your sisters for the holidays, a break from all the "SICK’ people will do you well. Karen
Response:
Hi Ron, The reply C.J. has made covers it all pretty well. First marriages, especially choice of first spouses when we are young, are often to do with working out the issues in the familys in which we were raised. Resemblances between first spouses and parents of the opposite sex are not coincidental, Best wishes, Ian
Response:
Oh man, the shit just never ends, does it? If your mom is actually suffering from a gambling addiction, she and everyone must realize that it is real and as dangerous as drug addiction. Understandably she obviously has her own issues she is trying to deal with. I perfectly understand your saying she uses illness to manipulate people, my own mother does this. I am sorry for you, I wish the best for you and your parents, it is never fun to be in this situation. Take care. Greg "
Response:
Drol D…@bebilith.org wrote: >I had a long conversation with my mother today… She is apparently >suffering from gambling addiction now.
Sorry to hear that. *********** >She just gambled away $200 she >was saving for a trip, along with her entertainment money for the month >and was trying to borrow $20 from the living expense budget, which my >father wouldn’t let her do, which she got very upset about.
That does sound like a problem. Not your problem, your mother’s problem. And if it affects the finances of your father, then to an extent, his problem too. Hopefully you’re staying clear of this. I mean, you have enough on your plate already without worrying about a mother who’s not responsibly dealing with her own life. ********** >Anyway while the two of them argued about it I felt a slow chill creep >over me because as I watched them I saw my wife and I. "I can’t >get out of bed and go to class — I’m DEPRESSED — I have no >WILLPOWER…"
It kind of helps you see where your own marital dynamics might have come from; the role models you were unwittingly given to as you were growing up; and now perhaps thinking these role model, while perhaps good in some ways, weren’t at all ideal in every way. ********* >Mom claims she is suffering from depression because of me and my wife >breaking up ….
You know what? That could well be. Nevertheless, that’s her problem. Not one for you to fix. ********** > Then when my father left the room she started crying >and saying that he (my father) would be better off without her and that >she was "worthless".
Don’t you just want to slap a parent when they talk silly like this? ************* >I think this is all because of the holidays coming up…
You could be right. I can’t say for certain, but let’s just say it wouldn’t surprise me. ************ > She has been >inviting my wife to every function (even Halloween, which is big at my >parents’ house and to be honest I didn’t mind her being there this year). > I am planning to spend Christmas with my sister in another state just to >get away from the situation for this year,
All things considered, I think that’s an excellent idea for you. *********** >and now she (my mother) thinks >that she has been "driving me away" by inviting my wife over all the time
I’d venture there’s atleast a sliver of truth in that because she doesn’t sound like she’s been good at setting boundaries since you and the wife have separated. *********** >and it feels like these problems of hers are designed to guilt me into >getting back together with my wife?
Maybe, maybe not. Really doesn’t matter one way or the other so long as you don’t buy into the guilt trip. *********** >A friend of mine told me that it would be best if my wife and I did >totally separate holidays for a couple of years and if we were still able >to be friends, then maybe it would be OK for her to come over (especially >if we both had other lovers at the time). ???
I think this is good counsel. With the two of you separated, the lines of the relationship become blurred if you’re really not separate from each other. A couple of years of separate holidays can keep that blur from happening. Then, after a time, if you are together at certain holidays, it will be well defined as a different kind of relationship. I would say your friend gave you good counsel here. ********* >This is hard and confusing and part of me feels like crap because I am >blaming myself for my mother’s problems
Perhaps something you’ve been doing on and off you’re whole growing up life, blaming yourself for your mother’s problems? Becoming her emotional sponge? Becoming everybody’s emotional sponge? Not saying enough, "sorry, this isn’t my problem"? *********** >but another part of me is saying >"HELL NO this is NOT my fault, my mother is making HER OWN DECISIONS and >SHE has to deal with the consequences."
That is exactly right. And that’s precisely the mentality which you’ve needed for a number of years, and are only now perhaps starting to show. And it’s good. Because when you aren’t taking ownership of other people’s problems, that leave you with more energy for those responsiblities which really are yours. So it sound like you’re starting to set some healthy boundaries. ********** > I have seen so much usage of >illness in my family as a tool to manipulate people that it is making ME >sick. I can’t deny mom’s bad feelings about the breakup but I know if I >fall into the trap of making decisions based on keeping the "sickies" >happy then that is a LIFESTYLE of caretaking I will be getting into for >the rest of my days.
I couldn’t have said it better myself. You can feel sorry for mom, but that doesn’t mean you have to rearrange your life trying to fix a problem which is really hers to fix for herself. ********* > "I’m *SICK*!!! Take me shopping!" "I don’t want >you dating her — it makes me *SICK*!!!" "If you don’t move back home >I’ll get *SICK*!!! I’LL DO IT!!!" >Sorry, ranting.
No, it’s a good rant. What I’m hearing from you is that you’re starting to set some healthy boundaries for yourself, going beyond what you use to habitually do (caretake) and taking better care of yourself in this way. It’s a good rant. CJ
Response:
I had a long conversation with my mother today… She is apparently suffering from gambling addiction now. She just gambled away $200 she was saving for a trip, along with her entertainment money for the month and was trying to borrow $20 from the living expense budget, which my father wouldn’t let her do, which she got very upset about. "I wish you wouldn’t treat me like a child", she said to him, and I had to agree with him that she WANTED him to treat her that way as he pointed out earlier in the week she had ASKED him to hide the $200 she was saving because she told him she couldn’t be "trusted" with it. He didn’t hide it and she gambled it away and then felt bad about it. She says she has "no willpower". He insisted that she NOT take money out of the living expense funds and gamble it away, even if she was going to pay it back in a few days with money she earned, especially if she was going to feel guilty about it later. Anyway while the two of them argued about it I felt a slow chill creep over me because as I watched them I saw my wife and I. "I can’t get out of bed and go to class — I’m DEPRESSED — I have no WILLPOWER…" Except Dad has become a real hardass with her about this stuff because, I suppose, he has had to to keep his sanity over the years. Mom claims she is suffering from depression because of me and my wife breaking up — and that gambling is the one thing she can do to escape from her problems and bad feelings. I asked her if she had told her therapist about it and she said no, she didn’t want to admit to having a gambling problem. Then when my father left the room she started crying and saying that he (my father) would be better off without her and that she was "worthless". I think this is all because of the holidays coming up… She has been inviting my wife to every function (even Halloween, which is big at my parents’ house and to be honest I didn’t mind her being there this year). I am planning to spend Christmas with my sister in another state just to get away from the situation for this year, and now she (my mother) thinks that she has been "driving me away" by inviting my wife over all the time and it feels like these problems of hers are designed to guilt me into getting back together with my wife? A friend of mine told me that it would be best if my wife and I did totally separate holidays for a couple of years and if we were still able to be friends, then maybe it would be OK for her to come over (especially if we both had other lovers at the time). ??? This is hard and confusing and part of me feels like crap because I am blaming myself for my mother’s problems but another part of me is saying "HELL NO this is NOT my fault, my mother is making HER OWN DECISIONS and SHE has to deal with the consequences." I have seen so much usage of illness in my family as a tool to manipulate people that it is making ME sick. I can’t deny mom’s bad feelings about the breakup but I know if I fall into the trap of making decisions based on keeping the "sickies" happy then that is a LIFESTYLE of caretaking I will be getting into for the rest of my days. "I’m *SICK*!!! Take me shopping!" "I don’t want you dating her — it makes me *SICK*!!!" "If you don’t move back home I’ll get *SICK*!!! I’LL DO IT!!!" Sorry, ranting. – Ron ^*^
Response:
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