Depression Learning

anyone relate to these thoughts?

Question:

 You obviously want something. What is it that we are supposed to do for you? Oh is this the initiation that everyone gets when the decide to post to this board. Ok I get it. So if write something to the board, you want to know my pathetic reasons for writing.

Time to butt in. Luke, don’t worry about ASAP (that’s *us*, including you!). Anybody who arrives here is perfectly free to write whatever s/he has in mind and anybody else is free to react in whatever way they see fit. It’s an *open, unmoderated newsgroup*. As long as one isn’t being offensive one can say whatever one pleases and the same goes for offences, only they won’t make one popular ) You don’t have to defend yourself by any stretch of the imagination. Although I understand what David (whom I don’t know and can’t remember to have seen posting earlier) is trying to say, I can imagine that you don’t experience this as a very welcoming way of approach. Many of us PD-ers frighten ourselves with our scary thoughts that we try to learn to control, with more or less success. You say that you’re going to try *cheap* CBT. CBT is a fine method to *restructure catastrophic thinking* (as the lingo has it) and then to face your fears by way of *gradual exposure* to *anxiety triggers*. I only hope *cheap* CBT doesn’t mean *bad* CBT… I live in Holland (Europe) and all CBT here costs the same because our national health system is structured that way. CBT is done most of the time by a clinical psychologist specialized in it. SAs far as research goes CBT has proven very much helpful with anxiety/panic symptoms than any other kind of psychotherapy such as psychodynamic therapy which you seem to have done earlier. I’m not saying that can’t be very rewarding (it was for me) but it’s not a first choice therapy to learn how to cope with anxiety. Of course there is medication too and often medication and CBT make a good combo (although some CB-therapists will disagree, I hope you’ll find someone different). I wonder whether you are *officially* diagnosed by a psychiatrist weho specializes in anxiety disorders and if so what you were diagnosed with. To me it sounds like Panic Disorder with a touch of OCD but I’m not a doctor and even for doctors it’s difficult if indeed possible at all to diagnose over the Internet. What can YOU do for me?

Yes, a good question….what can *we* do for you? In the first place, everybody here suffers from an anxiety disorder, so you’re *not alone*. What you wrote is very recognizable to me and probably to each of us. We’re here to share knowledge and experience, to *support* each other, to celebrate each other’s victories (which, however small they may seem sometimes, are *big steps* towards recovery) and to comfort each other when a shoulder or a hug is needed. Moreover, we like to have fun as well and there are some OT-threads where we crack jokes when we feel like it. All in all we are a pretty nice and supportive bunch of people and I hope ASAP will get to mean as much for you as it has for me. Not only have I learned a lot in the more than two years I have been spending here, but I have also made some very good friends. I am sure that David didn’t mean any harm with his *tough love* approach. Although I can see why he wrote what he wrote I believe that it’s not the best way to approach somebody who is new to the group. Posting for the first time in a newsgroup can be a scary thing for many so please stick around and read the messages. I’m sure you will feel more comfortable here soon. And ASAP definitely is also a place where we can *vent* as much as we feel necessary to get something off our chests. Philip – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

Hi people, can anyone relate to these thoughts? There may be no way I can stop the anxiety, stop worrying… because I have tried so much and I just keep going around in a vicious cycle no matter what. Its wrecking my life and there doesn’t seem to be any way I can stop it. My anxiety is different to other peoples, they can be treated because they are ‘normal’, I am not ‘normal’… things that work for other people wont work for me. I’m doomed with this and I’m all alone. Nobody knows how hard life is for me, nobody can even tell I’m totally suffering. There are so many things I want in life, if it weren’t for anxiety I would love life so much and enjoy doing almost anything. I WANT OUT OF THIS! I have these kind of thoughts all the time, so I thought I’d just write them down. I often feel that I am slightly crazy, I wish I could accept that I just have anxiety problems but I dont seem to be able to. *deep breath* I really needed to get that off my chest. Luke Before you buy.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi people, can anyone relate to these thoughts? There may be no way I can stop the anxiety, stop worrying… because I have tried so much and I just keep going around in a vicious cycle no matter what. Its wrecking my life and there doesn’t seem to be any way I can stop it. My anxiety is different to other peoples, they can be treated because they are ‘normal’, I am not ‘normal’… things that work for other people wont work for me. I’m doomed with this and I’m all alone. Nobody knows how hard life is for me, nobody can even tell I’m totally suffering. There are so many things I want in life, if it weren’t for anxiety I would love life so much and enjoy doing almost anything. I WANT OUT OF THIS! I have these kind of thoughts all the time, so I thought I’d just write them down. I often feel that I am slightly crazy, I wish I could accept that I just have anxiety problems but I dont seem to be able to. *deep breath* I really needed to get that off my chest. Luke

Luke, What you describe is classic.  I’m sure the majority of people in this NG have felt something like you’ve written.  Unfortunately, this kind of thinking ususally makes things worse.  If you can get to the point where you don’t "fear the fear" or accept the anxiety and think things like "I’m anxious, I’m not dying, I’m not crazy, I’m just anxious and feel bad, so what" it should help. God bless,   Mark Before you buy.

Response:

the first thing to do is stop being negative about it. i know that’s hard but trust me it works. i was in the same situation a few years back. med ofter med, group session after group, doctor after doctor….. finally i found a p doc that actually stood up too my negativity strongly. he said stop reading all the stuff you’re reading about what works and what doesn’t, stop reading about side effects, trust me to help you, or go home and don’t come back….. tough love? i don’t know but after i was done being pissed off at him i said what the hel and tried it…. guess what, the next combo of meds worked, adn then 2 years later i was still panic free and got off the meds. i did have a relapse, but now i’m into it and not worrying abou tit. i take smaller doses of what i had back then and no attacks. i know what it is and i know i beat it, so it doesn’t get me down. "Remember, when someone annoys you that it takes 42 muscles to frown, but it only takes 4 muscles to extend your arm and whack them in the head." http://members.aol.com/unfun26/enter.htm

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi people, can anyone relate to these thoughts? There may be no way I can stop the anxiety, stop worrying… because I have tried so much and I just keep going around in a vicious cycle no matter what. Its wrecking my life and there doesn’t seem to be any way I can stop it. My anxiety is different to other peoples, they can be treated because they are ‘normal’, I am not ‘normal’… things that work for other people wont work for me. I’m doomed with this and I’m all alone. Nobody knows how hard life is for me, nobody can even tell I’m totally suffering. There are so many things I want in life, if it weren’t for anxiety I would love life so much and enjoy doing almost anything. I WANT OUT OF THIS! I have these kind of thoughts all the time, so I thought I’d just write them down. I often feel that I am slightly crazy, I wish I could accept that I just have anxiety problems but I dont seem to be able to. *deep breath* I really needed to get that off my chest. Luke Before you buy.

when my anxiety attacks began in ancient times -I couldn’t step outside my house-watch t.v. read a book, eat, sleep, or think other then the litany you describe as a sometimes type of thinking. I couldn’t look in the mirror, talk on the phone, talk to others with any sense-I spent my days and nights obsessed that I was going mad-a full blown psychosis a total break from reality never to ever be whole or well or normal again-guess what? If you think your a tough case—-everyone is the toughest case. I was so recitavistic that I had a reputation that preceded me–that was many years ago—now I sit on the other side of the big papa desk and say to you: here is your choice-stay forever in negativity land with the poor me I have no control over this thing which has it’s own life and is sucking mine away-or do something and keep doing something till you find what works for you. There is no wonder drug silver bullet magic wand or single simple answer-there are many ways to manage anxiety but you can only seek to find. I hope you do–if I can recover from being housebound you can recover from being self bound. best wishes LM

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi people, can anyone relate to these thoughts? There may be no way I can stop the anxiety, stop worrying… because I have tried so much and I just keep going around in a vicious cycle no matter what. Its wrecking my life and there doesn’t seem to be any way I can stop it. My anxiety is different to other peoples, they can be treated because they are ‘normal’, I am not ‘normal’… things that work for other people wont work for me. I’m doomed with this and I’m all alone. Nobody knows how hard life is for me, nobody can even tell I’m totally suffering. There are so many things I want in life, if it weren’t for anxiety I would love life so much and enjoy doing almost anything. I WANT OUT OF THIS! I have these kind of thoughts all the time, so I thought I’d just write them down. I often feel that I am slightly crazy, I wish I could accept that I just have anxiety problems but I dont seem to be able to. *deep breath* I really needed to get that off my chest. Luke

Actually I – and probably almost everybody here – am quite familiar with these thoughts. Most of us have had them at some point. Indeed you’re no more crazy than me or my next door neighbour (come to think of it, he sometimes seems a bit off his rocker ) You might benefit a lot from some Cognitive Behaviour Therapy which in part aims at *restructuring catastrophic thought patterns* in a rather effective way. Philip – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

when my anxiety attacks began in ancient times -I couldn’t step outside my house-watch t.v. read a book, eat, sleep, or think other then the litany you describe as a sometimes type of thinking. I couldn’t look in the mirror, talk on the phone, talk to others with any sense-I spent my days and nights obsessed that I was going mad-a full blown psychosis a total break from reality never to ever be whole or well or normal again-guess what?

I’ve felt like I’m heading for that many times, never quite let myself get that far. I dont know why I haven’t let myself get that far before, I often convince myself that I’m going to completely lose control of everything. I have extreme worry over doing a simple thing like carrying something (at work), saying something to someone. I start to think I can’t do anything at all. I feel like just giving up, like quitting my job and sitting inside all day, but I dont. If you think your a tough case—-everyone is the toughest case. I was so recitavistic that I had a reputation that preceded me–that was many years ago—now I sit on the other side of the big papa desk and say to you: here is your choice-stay forever in negativity land with the poor me I have no control over this thing which has it’s own life and is sucking mine away-or do something and keep doing something till you find what works for you.

Don’t pretend you know my attitude, because you wouldn’t have a clue, I’m not a splitting image of who you use to be. It seems every new positive attitude gets reduced back to the utter terror of insanity no matter what I do. I’ve tried many drugs and therapists and have got nowhere. I’m all into self improvment dont worry about that, I’m all into taking responsiblity for my own problems, but at the same time I’m into destroying every positive move I make. I’m well aware that I’m doing it to myself but its a whole different story trying to stop being completely negative.  There is no wonder drug silver bullet magic wand or single simple answer-there are many ways to manage anxiety but you can only seek to find. I hope you do–if I can recover from being housebound you can recover from being self bound. best wishes

Well anyway I’m glad I wrote that message because I can relate very much to everything you’ve said and I know that you have recovered a lot which offers a great amount of hope. I just cant express how much your reply has helped. I feel more like I’ve got a problem other people have and that I should be able to find ways to manage it. You hit the nail on the head, I am extremely self bound. Thanks Luke Before you buy.

Response:

Actually I – and probably almost everybody here – am quite familiar with these thoughts. Most of us have had them at some point. Indeed you’re no more crazy than me or my next door neighbour (come to think of it, he sometimes seems a bit off his rocker ) You might benefit a lot from some Cognitive Behaviour Therapy which in part aims at *restructuring catastrophic thought patterns* in a rather effective way. Philip

Yeah, I plan to do CBT very soon, even if I do have to pay a huge amount. I must admit to being very negative about it last time I went, I only went to one session then never went back, that was partly because i couldn’t afford it though. Anyway I’ll keep people posted on my progress. Luke Before you buy.

Response:

Luke, I could start writing a post writing the same things you did. I wish I hd an answer for you, but I don’t. When I describe my disorder and what it intails to others with PD, I see sock come over their faces. I guess some of us just have it on a level that can’t be described. I wish the best for you and encourage you to keep posting. You are  not alone on this one even though you are in an isolated world of your own. If I can offer any support in any way , feel free to contact me.         Good luck to you and keep striving through this misery, maybe one day we can figure i out and do the things in life we’ve always visioned ourselves doing.                                            Tim

Response:

Hi people, can anyone relate to these thoughts? There may be no way I can stop the anxiety, stop worrying… because I have tried so much and I just keep going around in a vicious cycle no matter what. Its wrecking my life and there doesn’t seem to be any way I can stop it. My anxiety is different to other peoples, they can be treated because they are ‘normal’,

Quesiton: What is normal anxiety? For that matter, what is normal? Can’t say that I’ve met a normal person yet. I am not ‘normal’… things that work for other people wont work for me.

For instance . . .? I’m doomed with this and I’m all alone.

What do you mean by doomed? Nobody knows how hard life is for me, nobody can even tell I’m totally suffering.

What is a day of suffering to you? When I treked through Cambodia this past summer, I saw REAL suffering. For example, people missing limbs from land mines–in some instances all of their limbs–others including young girls that were sold into prostitution that hadn’t even reached the age of 12. I would urge you to re-examine just what suffering is to you. Believe me, it won’t measure up to what these other people are going through. There are so many things I want in life, if it weren’t for anxiety I would love life so much

Anxiety has nothing to do with your lack of enjoyment for life. and enjoy doing almost anything. I WANT OUT OF THIS!

So what are you going to do about it?  Keep the emphasise on YOU. You might be thinking, "Who is this asshole? I just spilled my guts and he’s not giving me an ounce of sympathy."  Yes, perhaps you’re right. I too suffered intense anxiety attacks until I finally decided to do something about. I got rid of my medication–was on it for nearly three years–and figured "What the hell. If I die now, I die now. So be it." It was the best thing I did. I kept a note pad and wrote every negative thought and comment that ever came to my mind. I got to the point to where I was sick and tired of doing it. I was living the life that I created; one of negative and unproductive bliss. You’re at that stage now. Remember Buddha said, "We are what we think. All that we are arises with our thoughts. With our thoughts we make our world." As soon as you decide to trash your negative thoughts, work on reinforcing positive thoughts, set goals and make a commitment to change, then you will be free. Why? Because you’ll be too occupied to think of anything else. I have these kind of thoughts all the time, so I thought I’d just write them down.

Do you ever write down positive thoughts?  If not, make them up. What kinds of thoughts would person X or A say? (X and A are successful role models.) I often feel that I am slightly crazy, I wish I could accept that I just have anxiety problems but I dont seem to be able to.

You’re able to, you just don’t want to. You are not willing to make the complete and total effort. As you as you’re ready to make this the #1 priority in your life, you’ll continue down this road. *deep breath* I really needed to get that off my chest. Luke Before you buy.

Before you buy.

Response:

Quesiton: What is normal anxiety? For that matter, what is normal? Can’t say that I’ve met a normal person yet.

Oh gee mate thanks for the intellegent comment. I know everybody is different everybody has there problems and there idiosynchrasies. I’ve been diagnosed with various disorders but I’ve never fitted into a catergory properly, so it makes my anxiety problems hard to treat. I am not ‘normal’… things that work for other people wont work for me. For instance . . .?

I’m not going to go into everything I’ve tried. These are desperate thoughts, these are thoughts I have when I feel like giving up. I know there not rational. I’m just telling people how bad I feel, if you just want to get on you high horse and make fun of me go ahead, I hope it makes you feel special. I’m doomed with this and I’m all alone. What do you mean by doomed?

Its a feeling I get when I fail time and time again. Nobody knows how hard life is for me, nobody can even tell I’m totally suffering. What is a day of suffering to you? When I treked through Cambodia this past summer, I saw REAL suffering. For example, people missing limbs from land mines–in some instances all of their limbs–others including young girls that were sold into prostitution that hadn’t even reached the age of 12. I would urge you to re-examine just what suffering is to you. Believe me, it won’t measure up to what these other people are going through.

I dont know if you think your telling me something new or not, I know about these things over the other side of the planet. I had imense anxiety and depression over them for more than a year. I kept thinking how privaledged we are and that we completely take it for granted. And we justify it all to make ourselves feel better… but i felt like I couldn’t justify that I should have abundant food and shelter when there are people with nothing. I didn’t feel motivated to do anything, when I am so greedy. Of course doing nothing with these privaledges is worse than making the most of them, even if I and most people in this society are completely self centred. I have managed to get on with my life and regain some enthusiasm for the goals I hope to achieve. However people who say what you have just said to me when I’m trying so to tackle my problems make me very angry. Saying this to me wont trigger me to change, its not trying to help me, it is just an insult in my eyes. I am suffering, and to bring people who are suffering more than me but in a different way for a comparison, then trying to use it against me is very dimeaning, not to mention rather idiotic on your part. Am I meant to feel guilt? Am I bad for having these feelings because there are people worse off who get on with life? Nobody escapes human suffering no matter what society they live in, its our condition… I hope my suffering today will make me realise how wonderful every moment is in the future one day, but I sure as hell wont get a ruler out and start hitting someone over wrist because they finally bring themselves to tell me what they are going through. Grow up you fool. There are so many things I want in life, if it weren’t for anxiety I would love life so much Anxiety has nothing to do with your lack of enjoyment for life.

Overall I still enjoy life, but when I have severe fear, I cannot stand it, I want to get away from this existence. and enjoy doing almost anything. I WANT OUT OF THIS! So what are you going to do about it?  Keep the emphasise on YOU. You might be thinking, "Who is this asshole? I just spilled my guts and he’s not giving me an ounce of sympathy."  Yes, perhaps you’re right.

I wasn’t looking for sympathy especially not from a… err… person like yourself. I – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – too suffered intense anxiety attacks until I finally decided to do something about. I got rid of my medication–was on it for nearly three years–and figured "What the hell. If I die now, I die now. So be it." It was the best thing I did. I kept a note pad and wrote every negative thought and comment that ever came to my mind. I got to the point to where I was sick and tired of doing it. I was living the life that I created; one of negative and unproductive bliss. You’re at that stage now. Remember Buddha said, "We are what we think. All that we are arises with our thoughts. With our thoughts we make our world." As soon as you decide to trash your negative thoughts, work on reinforcing positive thoughts, set goals and make a commitment to change, then you will be free. Why? Because you’ll be too occupied to think of anything else.

Its hard to come to terms with your incredible ignorance but I must remember I am equally ignorant in other areas, its just I dont act like I know what I’m talking about. I have these kind of thoughts all the time, so I thought I’d just write them down. Do you ever write down positive thoughts?

I did 2 years ago, my psychologist thought it might help.  If not, make them up. What kinds of thoughts would person X or A say? (X and A are successful role models.) I often feel that I am slightly crazy, I wish I could accept that I just have anxiety problems but I dont seem to be able to. You’re able to, you just don’t want to. You are not willing to make the complete and total effort.

You do not know me so take a hike. Luke Before you buy.

Response:

Quesiton: What is normal anxiety? For that matter, what is normal? Can’t say that I’ve met a normal person yet. Oh gee mate thanks for the intellegent comment. I know everybody is different everybody has there problems and there idiosynchrasies. I’ve been diagnosed with various disorders but I’ve never fitted into a catergory properly, so it makes my anxiety problems hard to treat.

As long as you believe they will be hard to treat, they will continue to be hard to treat. And yes, regarding my ability to offer ’smart’ advice . . . I do have a BA an MA and speak Japanese. I am not ‘normal’… things that work for other people wont work for me. For instance . . .? I’m not going to go into everything I’ve tried. These are desperate thoughts, these are thoughts I have when I feel like giving up. I know there not rational. I’m just telling people how bad I feel, if you just want to get on you high horse and make fun of me go ahead, I hope it makes you feel special.

I’m telling you to get off of your low horse and face life head on. Like it or not, you get something from your anxiety. In this case, it’s much needed attention. We all do things for a reason. You have these dark thoughts because you get something in return. They keep your mind occupied and allow you not to confront the issues in life that prompt them. Moreover, you get attention, albeit negative and non-constructive attention, but it’s attention nonetheless. I’m doomed with this and I’m all alone. What do you mean by doomed? Its a feeling I get when I fail time and time again. Nobody knows how hard life is for me, nobody can even tell I’m totally suffering.

OK, what if everyone understood how hard your life is? What would you expect from them? All of us on this thread have some indication that your life is hard. OK. So what do you want from us? Don’t say "nothing". You obviously want something. What is it that we are supposed to do for you? What is a day of suffering to you? When I treked through Cambodia this past summer, I saw REAL suffering. For example, people missing limbs from land mines–in some instances all of their limbs–others including young girls that were sold into prostitution that hadn’t even reached the age of 12. I would urge you to re-examine just what suffering is to you. Believe me, it won’t measure up to what these other people are going through. I dont know if you think your telling me something new or not, I know about these things over the other side of the planet. I had imense anxiety and depression over them for more than a year.

One can’t save the world. Only so many people can fit in the life-boat. I kept thinking how privaledged we are and that we completely take it for granted. And we justify it all to make ourselves feel better… but i felt like I couldn’t justify that I should have abundant food and shelter when

there are people with nothing. I didn’t feel motivated to do anything, when I am so greedy. How are you greedy? It sounds like you deprive yourself (i.e., enjoying life, confidence, etc). Of course doing nothing with these privaledges is worse than making the most of them, even if I and most people in this society are completely self centred. I have managed to get on with my life and regain some enthusiasm for the goals I hope to achieve. However people who say what you have just said to me when I’m trying so to tackle my problems make me very angry. Saying this to me wont trigger me to change, its not trying to help me, it is just an insult in my eyes. I am suffering, and to bring people who are suffering more than me but in a different way for a comparison, then trying to use it against me is very dimeaning, not to mention rather idiotic on your part. Am I meant to feel guilt?

No. It’s meant to make you realize that life isn’t that bad. Am I bad for having these feelings because there are people worse off who get on with life? Nobody escapes human suffering no matter what society they live in, its our condition… I hope my suffering today will make me realise how wonderful every moment is in the future one day,

Why can’t that one day be ‘today’?  Why haven’t you made the decision that that day will be ‘today’?  You, and only you, are the only person in the world that can make that decision. No one can do it for you. You can post as many questions to these web forums, see as many shrinks as you want, pop as many pills as you like, etc., but one thing remains constant: your life will not change for the better until you decide that it will. Period. No one, nor no thing can do it for you.  but I sure as hell wont get a ruler out and start hitting someone over wrist because they finally bring themselves to tell me what they are going through. Grow up you fool.

Uh . . . I’m not the fool here. There are so many things I want in life, if it weren’t for anxiety I would love life so much Anxiety has nothing to do with your lack of enjoyment for life. Overall I still enjoy life, but when I have severe fear, I cannot stand it, I want to get away from this existence.

Well, and how do you propose doing that? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – and enjoy doing almost anything. I WANT OUT OF THIS! So what are you going to do about it?  Keep the emphasise on YOU. You might be thinking, "Who is this asshole? I just spilled my guts and he’s not giving me an ounce of sympathy."  Yes, perhaps you’re right. I wasn’t looking for sympathy especially not from a… err… person like yourself. I too suffered intense anxiety attacks until I finally decided to do something about. I got rid of my medication–was on it for nearly three years–and figured "What the hell. If I die now, I die now. So be it." It was the best thing I did. I kept a note pad and wrote every negative thought and comment that ever came to my mind. I got to the point to where I was sick and tired of doing it. I was living the life that I created; one of negative and unproductive bliss. You’re at that stage now. Remember Buddha said, "We are what we think. All that we are arises with our thoughts. With our thoughts we make our world." As soon as you decide to trash your negative thoughts, work on reinforcing positive thoughts, set goals and make a commitment to change, then you will be free. Why? Because you’ll be too occupied to think of anything else. Its hard to come to terms with your incredible ignorance but I must remember I am equally ignorant in other areas, its just I dont act like I know what I’m talking about.

Q: Why do you think that your anxiety is any worst than my anxiety was? I couldn’t go out in public. I couldn’t drive my car. I couldn’t hold a conversation w/out freaking out. I couldn’t hold a job. I saw all the shrinks. I took all the pills. I hit all the web forums. I had all the sweats, shakes, feelings of unreality, chest pains, soupy shits and the list goes on. Sorry buddy, but you don’t own the market on anxiety. You’ve got balls to think for a second that your case is any worst than what myself and others have gone through. The thing that separates us from you is that we made a decision to confront our anxiety head on. We said,"I’ve had enough of this crap. I want my life back and it starts today." We confronted every dark secret and made a daily effort to delete negative thoughts and replace them with positive ones. We stuck to it, and, in many cases, are continuing to after several years. We are determined not to give in any more. So when are you going to join the club?  When will you make that decision? I have these kind of thoughts all the time, so I thought I’d just write them down. Do you ever write down positive thoughts? I did 2 years ago, my psychologist thought it might help.

So why did you stop?  If not, make them up. What kinds of thoughts would person X or A say? (X and A are successful role models.) I often feel that I am slightly crazy, I wish I could accept that I just have anxiety problems but I dont seem to be able to. You’re able to, you just don’t want to. You are not willing to make the complete and total effort. You do not know me so take a hike.

Not so. I know you very well. I’ve been there. I’m just telling you how it is. It’s not sugar coated, but it’s the truth. Make a decision for change and stick to it. Never give up. Do whatever is necessary to succeed.  I keep a daily journal. I write in it every day and review it about every two weeks. I don’t dwell on the negative. If I write something negative, I ask myself why I did it when I review my entries. I’m separted from the momemt of writing the comment so it makes it easier. You don’t realize it yet, but the answers to a better life are right in front of your face. Again, make a decision that life changes today. It’s that simple. It takes just as much energy to dwell on negative thoughts as it does on positive thoughts. Luke Before you buy.

Before you buy.

Response:

David, No offense to you, because I absolutely see your point.  However, please understand that the things Luke is talking about are classic from a deeply depressed perspective.  I felt most all of them myself when I was severely ill. I understand you’ve seen some real horror in the world (Cambodia).  I applaud you for witnessing it.  It takes a strong mind.  But you can’t pit pain against pain.  Luke’s problems are bigger than Cambodia because they are *his*.  He probably  knows little of that world (like most of us) and can’t even relate to what you’re trying to say by bringing it up, you see?  Also, the guilt that seriously depressed people endure over world events is immense.  I used to torture myself with the thought that if I couldn’t do anything pro-active to stop the suffering of the world, then I was adding to it.  It was a ridiculous thought because I was not even equipped to care for myself, much less take on the healing of a traumatic, foreign situation.   I am glad dumping your meds and working hard on yourself turned out to be a positive and successful thing for you, but we’re all so different.  Personally, meds are the only thing that keep me functioning and are one of only two things that keep me alive. <" Remember Buddha said, "We are what we think. All that we are arises with our thoughts. With our thoughts we make our world.""

I have subscribed to this belief for about 12 years now and believe it to be true completely.  However, you must remember that when your mind is ill you cannot trust your thoughts to be accurate.  Your perceptions are skewed towards the negative, towards recognizing the pain, the guilt, the shame, the sorrow in almost every situation you encounter.  The very thing on which you rely to pull yourself out of the darkness, is lost within that darkness and is virtually useless to save you.  This is not true in all situations of course, but this is my experience, and seems to be more what Luke is going through.  In these situations, my opinion is that medicine is key. Just my thoughts. : ) Love, Parker

<" Quesiton: What is normal anxiety? For that matter, what is normal? Can’t say that I’ve met a normal person yet. Oh gee mate thanks for the intellegent comment. I know everybody is different everybody has there problems and there idiosynchrasies. I’ve been diagnosed with various disorders but I’ve never fitted into a catergory properly, so it makes my anxiety problems hard to treat.

As long as you believe they will be hard to treat, they will continue to be hard to treat. And yes, regarding my ability to offer ’smart’ advice . . . I do have a BA an MA and speak Japanese. I am not ‘normal’… things that work for other people wont work for me. For instance . . .? I’m not going to go into everything I’ve tried. These are desperate thoughts, these are thoughts I have when I feel like giving up. I know there not rational. I’m just telling people how bad I feel, if you just want to get on you high horse and make fun of me go ahead, I hope it makes you feel special.

I’m telling you to get off of your low horse and face life head on. Like it or not, you get something from your anxiety. In this case, it’s much needed attention. We all do things for a reason. You have these dark thoughts because you get something in return. They keep your mind occupied and allow you not to confront the issues in life that prompt them. Moreover, you get attention, albeit negative and non-constructive attention, but it’s attention nonetheless. I’m doomed with this and I’m all alone. What do you mean by doomed? Its a feeling I get when I fail time and time again. Nobody knows how hard life is for me, nobody can even tell I’m totally suffering.

OK, what if everyone understood how hard your life is? What would you expect from them? All of us on this thread have some indication that your life is hard. OK. So what do you want from us? Don’t say "nothing". You obviously want something. What is it that we are supposed to do for you? What is a day of suffering to you? When I treked through Cambodia this past summer, I saw REAL suffering. For example, people missing limbs from land mines–in some instances all of their limbs–others including young girls that were sold into prostitution that hadn’t even reached the age of 12. I would urge you to re-examine just what suffering is to you. Believe me, it won’t measure up to what these other people are going through. I dont know if you think your telling me something new or not, I know about these things over the other side of the planet. I had imense anxiety and depression over them for more than a year.

One can’t save the world. Only so many people can fit in the life-boat. I kept thinking how privaledged we are and that we completely take it for granted. And we justify it all to make ourselves feel better… but i felt like I couldn’t justify that I should have abundant food and shelter when

there are people with nothing. I didn’t feel motivated to do anything, when I am so greedy. How are you greedy? It sounds like you deprive yourself (i.e., enjoying life, confidence, etc). Of course doing nothing with these privaledges is worse than making the most of them, even if I and most people in this society are completely self centred. I have managed to get on with my life and regain some enthusiasm for the goals I hope to achieve. However people who say what you have just said to me when I’m trying so to tackle my problems make me very angry. Saying this to me wont trigger me to change, its not trying to help me, it is just an insult in my eyes. I am suffering, and to bring people who are suffering more than me but in a different way for a comparison, then trying to use it against me is very dimeaning, not to mention rather idiotic on your part. Am I meant to feel guilt?

No. It’s meant to make you realize that life isn’t that bad. Am I bad for having these feelings because there are people worse off who get on with life? Nobody escapes human suffering no matter what society they live in, its our condition… I hope my suffering today will make me realise how wonderful every moment is in the future one day,

Why can’t that one day be ‘today’?  Why haven’t you made the decision that that day will be ‘today’?  You, and only you, are the only person in the world that can make that decision. No one can do it for you. You can post as many questions to these web forums, see as many shrinks as you want, pop as many pills as you like, etc., but one thing remains constant: your life will not change for the better until you decide that it will. Period. No one, nor no thing can do it for you.  but I sure as hell wont get a ruler out and start hitting someone over wrist because they finally bring themselves to tell me what they are going through. Grow up you fool.

Uh . . . I’m not the fool here. There are so many things I want in life, if it weren’t for anxiety I would love life so much Anxiety has nothing to do with your lack of enjoyment for life. Overall I still enjoy life, but when I have severe fear, I cannot stand it, I want to get away from this existence.

Well, and how do you propose doing that? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – and enjoy doing almost anything. I WANT OUT OF THIS! So what are you going to do about it?  Keep the emphasise on YOU. You might be thinking, "Who is this asshole? I just spilled my guts and he’s not giving me an ounce of sympathy."  Yes, perhaps you’re right. I wasn’t looking for sympathy especially not from a… err… person like yourself. I too suffered intense anxiety attacks until I finally decided to do something about. I got rid of my medication–was on it for nearly three years–and figured "What the hell. If I die now, I die now. So be it." It was the best thing I did. I kept a note pad and wrote every negative thought and comment that ever came to my mind. I got to the point to where I was sick and tired of doing it. I was living the life that I created; one of negative and unproductive bliss. You’re at that stage now. Remember Buddha said, "We are what we think. All that we are arises with our thoughts. With our thoughts we make our world." As soon as you decide to trash your negative thoughts, work on reinforcing positive thoughts, set goals and make a commitment to change, then you will be free. Why? Because you’ll be too occupied to think of anything else. Its hard to come to terms with your incredible ignorance but I must remember I am equally ignorant in other areas, its just I dont act like I know what I’m talking about.

Q: Why do you think that your anxiety is any worst than my anxiety was? I couldn’t go out in public. I couldn’t drive my car. I couldn’t hold a conversation w/out freaking out. I couldn’t hold a job. I saw all the shrinks. I took all the pills. I hit all the web forums. I had all the sweats, shakes, feelings of unreality, chest pains, soupy shits and the list goes on. Sorry buddy, but you don’t own the market on anxiety. You’ve got balls to think for a second that your case is any worst than what myself and others have gone through. The thing that separates us from you is that we made a decision to confront our anxiety head on. We said,"I’ve had enough of this crap. I want my life back and it starts today." We confronted every dark secret and made a daily effort to delete negative thoughts and replace them with positive ones. We stuck to it, and, in many cases, are continuing to after several years. We are determined not to give in any more. So when are you going to join the club?  When will you make that decision? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have these kind

… read more »

Response:

<"Nobody knows how hard life is for me, nobody can even tell I’m totally suffering."

<"You obviously want something. What is it that we are supposed to do for you?" alt.SUPPORT.anxiety-panic

Response:

<"Nobody knows how hard life is for me, nobody can even tell I’m totally suffering." <"You obviously want something. What is it that we are supposed to do for you?" alt.SUPPORT.anxiety-panic

Parker, despite our differences I really like this post — right to the point. Dot (no sarcasm, no "ass kissing," etc.)  Don’t bite my head off!  

Response:

I’m telling you to get off of your low horse and face life head on. Like it or not, you get something from your anxiety. In this case, it’s much needed attention. We all do things for a reason. You have these dark thoughts because you get something in return. They keep your mind occupied and allow you not to confront the issues in life that prompt them. Moreover, you get attention, albeit negative and non-constructive attention, but it’s attention nonetheless.

I’ve been to inside therapy I’ve tried to work out what I’m trying to cover up with this anxiety. I’ve thought about it too much, I’ve tried to work out why am the way I am, have looked at my childhood. Never come up with the answer. You think I am an attention seeker that has been quite clear from the start… you think I want everyone to say ‘oh poor Luke, there there’. This is the kind of sh*t I have to put up with because I decide to post how I feel. Of course we all do things for a reason, my psychologist already installed that concept into my memory. So what? so now I have to give YOU the REASON for posting to this BOARD? OK, what if everyone understood how hard your life is? What would you expect from them? All of us on this thread have some indication that your life is hard. OK. So what do you want from us? Don’t say "nothing".

I can say what the hell I want.  You obviously want something. What is it that we are supposed to do for you?

Oh is this the initiation that everyone gets when the decide to post to this board. Ok I get it. So if write something to the board, you want to know my pathetic reasons for writing. What can YOU do for me? Well its quite clear you yourself can do absolutely nothing for me. As for what I wanted when I posted that message… I’ve always questioned whether I have common kind of anxious thoughts, and similar thought patterns to that of those suffering with anxiety disorders OR am I loopy, off my tree an outsider… my reality is warped, partly from taking drugs a few years back however I always showed disociative symptoms I believe. I had depersonalisation, that is something I know for a fact, my reality went very strange at times when I was a child. It was something I couldn’t really control, I suddenly didn’t feel like I was in my body or part of reality. So anyway, I fear totally losing control these days, totally losing grip on reality, going insane, also totally losing any close relationships with other people and not making any new ones. To bring it back to ‘the reason for posting’. I’m worried I’m going to be this way for the rest of my life, never get over this extreme up and down rollercoaster. I seem completely out of control like I’m going mad half the time. I’m unsure whether I am able to change my thoughts, to stop this suffering that I cause myself.I want to know whether other people with anxiety disorders have the same kind of thoughts… I’m scared that I’m untreatable. I didn’t want someone feeling sorry for me, but I did want to share the feelings I go through and to hear someone elses. Its called empathy. What do you want out of talking to me? Some kind of ego boost? How are you greedy? It sounds like you deprive yourself (i.e., enjoying life, confidence, etc).

People on the life boats pretend they care for others, but when it comes down to it they only care about themselves. Thats what I thought THEN, I was very depressed about it. I kept asking myself who I’d choose to be tortured horribly to death (limps cut off etc) between me or my mother. No. It’s meant to make you realize that life isn’t that bad.

Life is good when you can live in the here and now and enjoy it. I barely feel like im  living life half the time, I don’t feel like I’m here. I know life never use to be bad, I know sometimes now its not bad, but knowing that others have it worse off doesn’t make life any better. Am I bad for having these feelings because there are people worse off who get on with life? Nobody escapes human suffering no matter what society they live in, its our condition… I hope my suffering today will make me realise how wonderful every moment is in the future one day, Why can’t that one day be ‘today’?  Why haven’t you made the decision that that day will be ‘today’?

Ive made that descision literally hundreds of times… but no matter what new ways I decide to try use to deal with my fears, I keep going back to the same obsessive thought patterns.   You, and only you, are the only person in the world that can make that decision. No one can do it for you. You can post as many questions to these web forums, see as many shrinks as you want, pop as many pills as you like, etc., but one thing remains constant: your life will not change for the better until you decide that it will. Period. No one, nor no thing can do it for you.

I’ve decided I want it better. But I need the right help. I intend to get it. I have just found a place that does cheap CBT. Let me say that you have a got a few problems of your own, you think you’ve got people all worked out… sorry to give you the truth mate, but you dont have a clue. Uh . . . I’m not the fool here.

Sorry for the insult, but you really get on my nerves. (something about wanting to get out of this existence) Well, and how do you propose doing that?

There is no way (except for the obvious) thats why I’m still suffering. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – and enjoy doing almost anything. I WANT OUT OF THIS! So what are you going to do about it?  Keep the emphasise on YOU. You might be thinking, "Who is this asshole? I just spilled my guts and he’s not giving me an ounce of sympathy."  Yes, perhaps you’re right. I wasn’t looking for sympathy especially not from a… err… person like yourself. I too suffered intense anxiety attacks until I finally decided to do something about. I got rid of my medication–was on it for nearly three years–and figured "What the hell. If I die now, I die now. So be it." It was the best thing I did. I kept a note pad and wrote every negative thought and comment that ever came to my mind. I got to the point to where I was sick and tired of doing it. I was living the life that I created; one of negative and unproductive bliss. You’re at that stage now. Remember Buddha said, "We are what we think. All that we are arises with our thoughts. With our thoughts we make our world." As soon as you decide to trash your negative thoughts, work on reinforcing positive thoughts, set goals and make a commitment to change, then you will be free. Why? Because you’ll be too occupied to think of anything else. Its hard to come to terms with your incredible ignorance but I must remember I am equally ignorant in other areas, its just I dont act like I know what I’m talking about. Q: Why do you think that your anxiety is any worst than my anxiety was? I couldn’t go out in public. I couldn’t drive my car. I couldn’t hold a conversation w/out freaking out. I couldn’t hold a job. I saw all the shrinks. I took all the pills. I hit all the web forums. I had all the sweats, shakes, feelings of unreality, chest pains, soupy shits and the list goes on. Sorry buddy, but you don’t own the market on anxiety. You’ve got balls to think for a second that your case is any worst than what myself and others have gone through. The thing that separates us from you is that we made a decision to confront our anxiety head on. We said,"I’ve had enough of this crap. I want my life back and it starts today." We confronted every dark secret and made a daily effort to delete negative thoughts and replace them with positive ones. We stuck to it, and, in many cases, are continuing to after several years. We are determined not to give in any more. So when are you going to join the club?  When will you make that decision?

I never stated that my anxiety was worse than yours. I am a different person to you are, not everyone gets over there problems in the same way, so don’t think YOU have the definite answer to anxiety. I am trying to beat anxiety in every angle of my life, at times I think I’m making progress then it all comes crashing down. But I certainly haven’t given up. So why did you stop?

I didn’t, that original message to here was pretty negative was it not? And it helped to get those thoughts out of my system and onto my computer screen. I felt relieved when I wrote it, and I felt like it would do me good to show it to other people. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –  If not, make them up. What kinds of thoughts would person X or A say? (X and A are successful role models.) I often feel that I am slightly crazy, I wish I could accept that I just have anxiety problems but I dont seem to be able to. You’re able to, you just don’t want to. You are not willing to make the complete and total effort. You do not know me so take a hike. Not so. I know you very well. I’ve been there. I’m just telling you how it is. It’s not sugar coated, but it’s the truth. Make a decision for change and stick to it. Never give up. Do whatever is necessary to succeed.  I keep a daily journal. I write in it every day and review it about every two weeks. I don’t dwell on the negative. If I write something negative, I ask myself why I did it when I review my entries. I’m separted from the momemt of writing the comment so it makes it easier. You don’t realize it yet, but the answers to a better life are right in front of your face. Again, make a decision that life changes today. It’s that simple. It takes just as much energy to dwell on negative thoughts as it does on positive thoughts.

You know I totally agree with you. But I’ve already made the … read more »

Response:

I’m sorry you encountered this Luke.   David, I have posted pretty hot-tempered things in the past when people have recommended to others to "pull yourself up by your own bootstraps", so to speak.  When a person does *anything* in public, the attention factor is involved.  Luke is not here seeking attention any more than are the rest of us.  I re-read your posts to him again last night and really found a lot of what you said to be pretty insulting.  I know it’s not a personal thing, and I’m going to assume you didn’t purposefully mean to be as hard-nosed and unfeeling as you were.  Really though, your message did come off as "Poor you!  Life is tough.  Get over it you whiner!"  I think that is incredibly inappropriate for this forum. Luke, you have a right to be here and you don’t have to explain yourself to anyone. David, once again – Luke is posting his real feelings here.  It is very difficult for some people to open up and you are not making it any easier for him to do so.  It’s really painful to read what you are saying to him.  And very unfair of you.   Luke I admire you for continuing to share yourself and your story in the face of this poster.  I hope you’ll stay because there are a lot of really helpful and kind-hearted people here who may be able to lessen your pain a little. I am glad that you are not suffering anymore David, and I’m glad you’ve found your way in life.  I understand a lot of what you’re saying, but you can’t apply what worked for you to everyone else.  Your answers are just that – yours. Love, Parker Luke, I mention it below, but I wanted to be sure you saw it – are you on any medication right now sweetie? -a few comments below- D & L please read

I’m telling you to get off of your low horse and face life head on.  Like it or not, you get something from your anxiety. In this case, it’s much needed attention. We all do things for a reason. You have these dark thoughts because you get something in return. They keep your mind occupied and allow you not to confront the issues in life that prompt them. Moreover, you get attention, albeit negative and un-constructive attention, but it’s attention nonetheless." *Parker:  When you put out energy you get energy.  That’s physics.  It’s not necessarily some sort of conscious extracting of emotion from a person when you share your feelings with them. And of course we all do things for a reason, but knowing as little as you know about Luke, you are assuming all he is after is attention?  What about peace? What about mental wellness and an end to suffering? L<" I’ve been to inside therapy I’ve tried to work out what I’m trying to cover up with this anxiety. I’ve thought about it too much, I’ve tried to work out why am the way I am, have looked at my childhood. Never come up with the answer. You think I am an attention seeker that has been quite clear from the start… you think I want everyone to say ‘oh poor Luke, there there’. This is the kind of sh*t I have to put up with because I decide to post how I feel. Of course we all do things for a reason, my psychologist already installed that concept into my memory. So what? so now I have to give YOU the REASON for posting to this BOARD?" D<<"OK, what if everyone understood how hard your life is? What would you expect from them? All of us on this thread have some indication that your life is hard. OK. So what do you want from us? Don’t say "nothing"." L<"I can say what the hell I want." *Parker: Damn right you can Luke. D<<"You obviously want something. What is it that we are supposed to do for you?" L<"Oh is this the initiation that everyone gets when the decide to post to this board. Ok I get it. So if write something to the board, you want to know my pathetic reasons for writing. What can YOU do for me? Well its quite clear you yourself can do absolutely nothing for me. As for what I wanted when I posted that message… I’ve always questioned whether I have common kind of anxious thoughts, and similar thought patterns to that of those suffering with anxiety disorders OR am I loopy, off my tree an outsider… my reality is warped, partly from taking drugs a few years back however I always showed disociative symptoms I believe. I had depersonalisation, that is something I know for a fact, my reality went very strange at times when I was a child. It was something I couldn’t really control, I suddenly didn’t feel like I was in my body or part of reality. So anyway, I fear totally losing control these days, totally losing grip on reality, going insane, also totally losing any close relationships with other people and not making any new ones. To bring it back to ‘the reason for posting’. I’m worried I’m going to be this way for the rest of my life, never get over this extreme up and down rollercoaster. I seem completely out of control like I’m going mad half the time. I’m unsure whether I am able to change my thoughts, to stop this suffering that I cause myself.I want to know whether other people with anxiety disorders have the same kind of thoughts… I’m scared that I’m untreatable. I didn’t want someone feeling sorry for me, but I did want to share the feelings I go through and to hear someone elses. Its called empathy. What do you want out of talking to me? Some kind of ego boost?" D<<"How are you greedy? It sounds like you deprive yourself (i.e., enjoying life, confidence, etc)." *Parker:  Yeah David – It’s called DEPRESSION!  <ack! L<"People on the life boats pretend they care for others, but when it comes down to it they only care about themselves. Thats what I thought THEN, I was very depressed about it. I kept asking myself who I’d choose to be tortured horribly to death (limps cut off etc) between me or my mother. *Parker:  Luke sweetheart, try your hardest not to  entertain these sorts of scenarios.  Violent thoughts are common for people with severe depression, but they are not serving you.  You’ll only further upset yourself. DV<"No. It’s meant to make you realize that life isn’t that bad." L<"Life is good when you can live in the here and now and enjoy it. I barely feel like im  living life half the time, I don’t feel like I’m here. I know life never use to be bad, I know sometimes now its not bad, but knowing that others have it worse off doesn’t make life any better." *Parker:  Absolutely not – that’s right.   As I said before – your problems are the most important ones because they are yours.  Changing the world for the better or attempting to heal the lives of other people is NOT something you need to concern yourself with right now.  You’re not responsible for anyone else right now but you –  getting well is all you owe the world. D<<:Why haven’t you made the decision that that day will be ‘today’ [to get better]?" L<"Ive made that descision literally hundreds of times… but no matter what new ways I decide to try use to deal with my fears, I keep going back to the same obsessive thought patterns." *Parker:  It seems, in my opinion, that you should really not cease trying to find the right medication for you.  You sound SO much like me when I was seriously ill.  It is joyful (and yet upsetting) to think that a couple pills a day of the right med could change your ENTIRE life for the better and give you your mind and your life back.  (Or in my case, improve my life so much so that I really never HAD been that happy before.) David wrote (and I will end on this note): <<"You, and only you, are the only person in the world that can make that decision. No one can do it for you.  You can post as many questions to these web forums, see as many shrinks as you want, pop as many pills as you like, etc., but one thing remains  constant: your life will not change for the better until you decide  that it will. Period. No one, nor no thing can do it for you." *Parker:  David, this is not a true statement.  If Luke were (for instance) institutionalized against his will and given proper diagnosis and medication, he would improve –  regardless of any decision on his part. He is here seeking like-minded souls who understand his pain and can perhaps give him a direction toward healing or some support to keep on trying.  I REALLY don’t think that’s too much to ask. David – Please think about what you post on this subject next time.  You are fussing, in my opinion.  You are losing patience with Luke for some reason. It’s not your job to heal him.  But it’s also not your right to invalidate his pain or tell him he is not working hard enough.  It’s irrelevant to me how many degrees of higher learning you have, empathy and kindness aren’t taught in classrooms.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I know I wrote a load of crap. I guess its just the way I am. Luke IMO you did not post any crap at all. You shared how you feel. That’s a good and healthy thing to do and we do it all the time here, that’s what ASAP is for! Yeah, I guess I’m not that weird.  CBT may help you a lot. You don’t seem to be on any meds now. Have you ever tried a benzo like Xanax or Klonopin (which may be called *Rivotril* in Australia)? No, never tried them and I’m on nothing now. To be quite honest, I don’t know if I should take a med or not. I go through cycles of extreme anxiety, depression, and feeling almost normal but still having many anxious thoughts. I need to be physically fast for my job, so an anti anxiety med might have negative effects on my performance. I definetly intend to do CBT, then I would like to do some kind of inside therapy as well. Luke

Well, that choice is up to you of course. I don’t know what line of work you’re in but I do know that the benzo side effect which might be a problem for you, feeling drowsy, most often disappears after a while. I still experience more fatigue from Xanax than I would like but my reflexes are still quite OK and probably better than when feeling *extreme anxiety*. Philip – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Before you buy.

Response:

I know I wrote a load of crap. I guess its just the way I am. Luke IMO you did not post any crap at all. You shared how you feel. That’s a good and healthy thing to do and we do it all the time here, that’s what ASAP is for!

Yeah, I guess I’m not that weird.  CBT may help you a lot. You don’t seem to be on any meds now. Have you ever tried a benzo like Xanax or Klonopin (which may be called *Rivotril* in Australia)?

No, never tried them and I’m on nothing now. To be quite honest, I don’t know if I should take a med or not. I go through cycles of extreme anxiety, depression, and feeling almost normal but still having many anxious thoughts. I need to be physically fast for my job, so an anti anxiety med might have negative effects on my performance. I definetly intend to do CBT, then I would like to do some kind of inside therapy as well. Luke Before you buy.

Response:

Hi Luke, I have been reading your posts and I think I may remember you from some time  ago. I live in Melbourne but if you are the Luke I recall I think you live interstate, maybe NSW,

Hello Meryl, Yes your quite right, I did post here a few months ago, I hoped nobody would remember. I live in Perth. I see a psychiatrist at an Anxiety Clinic in Melbourne and he bulkbills. He also uses CBT. I agree about the costs of psychologists here. I could never afford

one. I believe there should be subsidies, it is wrong that there is so much help around but only the wealthy are able to use it. However at least there is still some places to go, you just have to look hard. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – If you are in NSW there is an OCD Support Group. They maybe able to help you. There phone number is 1800 626 055. Of the benzodiazepines, with proven efficacy for panic disorder, only Alprazolam is approved in Australia. Of the SSRIs paroxetine is currently the only one to gain approval for both the treatment and prevention of relapse of Panic Disorder. Sertraline has recently been approved for the treatment of Panic Disorder. SSRIs are first choice drugs in Panic Disorder considering their ability to effectively treat comorbid depression or OCD.

What is comorbid depression, and what does OCD have to do with PD? A combination of drug therapy and CBT are considered the most effective course of treatment. I hope you can find some effective help. Good luck,

Thankyou, I’m remaining quite optimistic at the moment. Luke Before you buy.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –  You say that you’re going to try *cheap* CBT. CBT is a fine method to *restructure catastrophic thinking* (as the lingo has it) and then to face your fears by way of *gradual exposure* to *anxiety triggers*. I only hope *cheap* CBT doesn’t mean *bad* CBT… I live in Holland (Europe) and all CBT here costs the same because our national health system is structured that way. I live in Australia, and an apointment with a psychologist is not covered by our national health system, the only way for it to cost less is to join private health insurance company, which I cannot afford. It is very expensive. However I have heard that there is some kind of CBT program at a public hospital, where they have group and individual therapy. I have heard good reports about it. I guess the word ‘cheap’ that I used made it sound rather second rate. I wonder whether you are *officially* diagnosed by a psychiatrist weho specializes in anxiety disorders and if so what you were diagnosed with. The first psychiatrist I went to diagnosed me with OCD and SP. But he didn’t specialise in anxiety disorders. He prescribed me luvox and stellazine, an antipsychotic. I started taking them both at once and had a severe reaction where I felt feverish, very anxious, my stomach was physically unable to relax and there was pain there. That was constant for 2 days, then it finally subsided. I never went back to him, making appointments with him was a huge task because he was so busy due to being one of the only two psychs that are completely subsidised by the government so cost nothing. The second I went to was a bit of an old school psych. He said I had a mixture of OCD, PD, SP. I saw him steadily for about 6 months. I went on Cipramil for a few months, and I found it helped me in some ways, I changed my life a lot during that period, got my first job in 3 years, which led to developing my social skills considerably. The side effects started becoming to much of a problem so I had to go off it. Then sadly my psych died of cancer. I didn’t even know he had cancer, but he was always sick. He was a very nice man who genuinely wanted to help me. I am sure that David didn’t mean any harm with his *tough love* approach. If he was doing this approach to help me I would understand, but I got the distinct impression he was doing it because he had something against me. When it comes down to it I am not discarding what he is saying, its just that I have the instinctive reaction to defend myself by what I feel is an attack on me personally. He puts himself on a pedastal and makes me feel like the lowest form of life on this planet. It’s difficult for me to suddenly become so determined and so positive again, I know what it feels like when I completely destroy that intention with extreme anxiety. It seems the more positive I become the greater the anxiety becomes. Therefore I deliberatly do not think too positively becuse I’m scared I will be punished worse with my next set of attacks. Although I can see why he wrote what he wrote I believe that it’s not the best way to approach somebody who is new to the group. Posting for the first time in a newsgroup can be a scary thing for many so please stick around and read the messages. I’m sure you will feel more comfortable here soon. And ASAP definitely is also a place where we can *vent* as much as we feel necessary to get something off our chests. Thanks I know I wrote a load of crap. I guess its just the way I am. Luke Before you buy.

Hi Luke, I have been reading your posts and I think I may remember you from some time  ago. I live in Melbourne but if you are the Luke I recall I think you live interstate, maybe NSW, I see a psychiatrist at an Anxiety Clinic in Melbourne and he bulkbills. He also uses CBT. I agree about the costs of psychologists here. I could never afford one. If you are in NSW there is an OCD Support Group. They maybe able to help you. There phone number is 1800 626 055. Of the benzodiazepines, with proven efficacy for panic disorder, only Alprazolam is approved in Australia. Of the SSRIs paroxetine is currently the only one to gain approval for both the treatment and prevention of relapse of Panic Disorder. Sertraline has recently been approved for the treatment of Panic Disorder. SSRIs are first choice drugs in Panic Disorder considering their ability to effectively treat comorbid depression or OCD. A combination of drug therapy and CBT are considered the most effective course of treatment. I hope you can find some effective help. Good luck, Meryl

Response:

I know I wrote a load of crap. I guess its just the way I am. Luke

IMO you did not post any crap at all. You shared how you feel. That’s a good and healthy thing to do and we do it all the time here, that’s what ASAP is for! CBT may help you a lot. You don’t seem to be on any meds now. Have you ever tried a benzo like Xanax or Klonopin (which may be called *Rivotril* in Australia)? Philip – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

 You say that you’re going to try *cheap* CBT. CBT is a fine method to *restructure catastrophic thinking* (as the lingo has it) and then to face your fears by way of *gradual exposure* to *anxiety triggers*. I only hope *cheap* CBT doesn’t mean *bad* CBT… I live in Holland (Europe) and all CBT here costs the same because our national health system is structured that way.

I live in Australia, and an apointment with a psychologist is not covered by our national health system, the only way for it to cost less is to join private health insurance company, which I cannot afford. It is very expensive. However I have heard that there is some kind of CBT program at a public hospital, where they have group and individual therapy. I have heard good reports about it. I guess the word ‘cheap’ that I used made it sound rather second rate. I wonder whether you are *officially* diagnosed by a psychiatrist weho specializes in anxiety disorders and if so what you were diagnosed

with. The first psychiatrist I went to diagnosed me with OCD and SP. But he didn’t specialise in anxiety disorders. He prescribed me luvox and stellazine, an antipsychotic. I started taking them both at once and had a severe reaction where I felt feverish, very anxious, my stomach was physically unable to relax and there was pain there. That was constant for 2 days, then it finally subsided. I never went back to him, making appointments with him was a huge task because he was so busy due to being one of the only two psychs that are completely subsidised by the government so cost nothing. The second I went to was a bit of an old school psych. He said I had a mixture of OCD, PD, SP. I saw him steadily for about 6 months. I went on Cipramil for a few months, and I found it helped me in some ways, I changed my life a lot during that period, got my first job in 3 years, which led to developing my social skills considerably. The side effects started becoming to much of a problem so I had to go off it. Then sadly my psych died of cancer. I didn’t even know he had cancer, but he was always sick. He was a very nice man who genuinely wanted to help me. I am sure that David didn’t mean any harm with his *tough love*

approach. If he was doing this approach to help me I would understand, but I got the distinct impression he was doing it because he had something against me. When it comes down to it I am not discarding what he is saying, its just that I have the instinctive reaction to defend myself by what I feel is an attack on me personally. He puts himself on a pedastal and makes me feel like the lowest form of life on this planet. It’s difficult for me to suddenly become so determined and so positive again, I know what it feels like when I completely destroy that intention with extreme anxiety. It seems the more positive I become the greater the anxiety becomes. Therefore I deliberatly do not think too positively becuse I’m scared I will be punished worse with my next set of attacks. Although I can see why he wrote what he wrote I believe that it’s not the best way to approach somebody who is new to the group. Posting for the first time in a newsgroup can be a scary thing for many so please stick around and read the messages. I’m sure you will feel more comfortable here soon. And ASAP definitely is also a place where we can *vent* as much as we feel necessary to get something off our chests.

Thanks I know I wrote a load of crap. I guess its just the way I am. Luke Before you buy.

Response:

Paxil, Remeron, Proxac are not made for brain injuried victims. Read the victims remarks and  listen to the reactions or adverse effects of drug he or she is taking before making a call. When prescribing these kind of  dangerous drugs to a TBI person remember to read the label. MERRY CHRISTMAS * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet’s Discussion Network * The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet – Free!

Response:

Dear Luke, You remind me of myself.   There was a time not to long ago, when I KNEW that I was no longer myself.  That Panic Disorder or SOMETHING was getting the best of me.  I felt my options were over.  What’s to live for when you are not you, and you have nothing to give because all has been blocked and blown away… But there is good news.  I hear your desperation, I know it personally.  I am a singer, I couldn’t, didn’t even want to sing, nothing held anything but burden for me.  Daily moments were like lifetimes of terror, but behold, look at the damn clock, it had only been seconds.  The things I wanted to give, the gifts that I have which I will only admit to myself were so far from my reach I felt useless and burdensome to those around me.  I could feel myself falling deeper.  I couldn’t win the fight. If I have misinterpreted your feelings, please correct me, I don’t mind being wrong anymore, I’ve been quite humbled.  All I know to tell you to do if panic or anxiety or a cloud of doom is robbing you of life or joy, and you know a time when life was a gift, but now feel it as a burden… my advice is to find a doctor (fast) who is able to recognize panic disorder. You may need a benzo.  I did.  With it I am the person of my childhood, I have choices.  Burdens, what are those?  I’ve been singing all evevning.  I want you to have your life back.  I had given up all hope.  I was ready to die, the terror was too much to bear for too long.  I can take a lot,  but 2 months terror… I am only human.  It doesn’t have to be this way.  What is medicine for?  It’s to alleviate suffering, disease, and incurable conditions.  Do whatever you have to to get what you need.  I couldn’t think myself out of it.  I could up to a point, but once it hits a certain intensity I can’t work, I can’t live, and long before that I become anti-social.  I have two children, 9 and 11, and they need me to be un"obsessed", un"terrorized".  If you are suffering please don’t suffer for NO reason.  Please find the help you need.  I know what you mean about not being able to explain the depth of this thing.  I suffered for way too long. I lost six months work this year alone. Listen, I may not have listened carefully to what you said, I may have misinterpreted your situation, forgive me if I’ve done so.  All I really wanted to say is that you have options.  You really do.  I have felt so many times like I had no options.  That it would always been the hell I was living in.  But remember you said you had many interests and lot’s to give, if you didn’t say exactly that, well, then, I read it between the lines. I remember the fear the anger the desperation… you are in my heart , prayers, and I await to hear your answers, which will come, (in my experience) at the VERY last moment, just before you snap.  There’s a wire you have to walk out in faith, and it’s full of fear of "just another disappointment", it’s a leap of faith… but it’s usually the answer.  Push yourself to try a new plan, don’t let a thing stop you, and watch it fall into place.  When it does… Tell us so we can celebrate for you. Ashley

Response:

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