Any Input
Question:
Rambler said for all posterity… It’s rough. You didn’t want to be in this position but yet it’s being forced on you. She’s stretching the bounds of your marriage which may or may not cause you to have to end it. This is, I think, important. Boundaries are set mutually for a partnership, and individually for a person. The scenario Op is referencing seems to indicate that he is willing to let his spouse set the boundaries for both the marriage and for himself. That is wrong (difficult not to let happen, but wrong nonetheless).
Yes, it’s wrong. I realize the OP’s hesitancy – if he sets a firm boundary and she crosses it, it’s up to him to do something about it. To the OP – I think that if you are even considering a trial seperation, you should approach it as the Japanese Samuri soldier used to approach battle. The samuri approached a battle as if he was already dead, thereby having no fear about dying.
Ever seen Band of Brothers? There’s a scene in the 3rd or 4th episode that echoes this theme. A fearless lieutenant tells a scared soldier that his problem is that he hasn’t realized he’s already dead, so he still has hope and that’s why he’s afraid. The one thing that I wish in my situation is that I had come to my senses quicker than I did.
That’s the one thing I wish I had done as well. Casey "It is easier to get older than it is to get wiser."
Response:
Confusion said for all posterity… I presented her with the option to go to a retreat for the weekend to save the marriage. She said she did not want to and she did not love me. She said she needed time. I asked what a separation would do for us?
Doesn’t sound like she wants to save the marriage at all. I’m sorry, but the "needing time" thing still sounds suspicious. I told her I could not live my life this way (the truth is – I can’t whether I want to or not). I told her I wanted a divorce if she was not willing to do anything for the marriage. I guess you could say I bit the bullet. It has been four hours since then. I feel OK so far.. One day at a time from here…. At least I have a focus. I know it will not be easy
It won’t be easy and there’s more heartache to come. It just comes with the territory. You’re right though, you can’t live your life the way it was headed. Casey "It is easier to get older than it is to get wiser."
Response:
You can’t make someone do something. All you can do is probably what you have been doing. Talking, encouraging the counseling and being as supportive emotionally as you possibly can be. If she suffers from depression she is going to have to get some help for that. Again, you can’t make her do that. If you aren’t already in some sort of counseling for yourself I would suggest that. Can’t hurt. Agreed on the counseling. Also, while you can’t make somebody do something, neither can you take responsibility for it. Would you like to make a wager on that?
Right, let me rephrase it to make it clear. If your partner is not willing to take the steps necessary to try and save the marriage, you *should not* take responsibility for your partner’s failure to do so. Better Bill? Rambler
Response:
You can’t make someone do something. All you can do is probably what you have been doing. Talking, encouraging the counseling and being as supportive emotionally as you possibly can be. If she suffers from depression she is going to have to get some help for that. Again, you can’t make her do that. If you aren’t already in some sort of counseling for yourself I would suggest that. Can’t hurt. Agreed on the counseling. Also, while you can’t make somebody do something, neither can you take responsibility for it.
Would you like to make a wager on that?
Response:
I presented her with the option to go to a retreat for the weekend to save the marriage. She said she did not want to and she did not love me. She said she needed time. I asked what a separation would do for us? I told her I could not live my life this way (the truth is – I can’t whether I want to or not). I told her I wanted a divorce if she was not willing to do anything for the marriage. I guess you could say I bit the bullet. It has been four hours since then. I feel OK so far.. One day at a time from here…. At least I have a focus. I know it will not be easy
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Confusion said for all posterity… Though I hate it so, I feel compelled to say to her that if she moves out or will not seek counseling with me I will end the marriage… But to be honest with myself, when I wake up tomorrow morning I know I will feel different…. Am I just stupid?????? Who knows? I’ve certainly done things that I later decided were stupid. No one has the corner on that market. I guess my best advice is to look at the big picture, figure out where you want/need to head, and try hard to make that happen. It’s so easy to get caught up in daily or hourly emotional swings that can cause you to make decisions that you might later regret. It’s rough. You didn’t want to be in this position but yet it’s being forced on you. She’s stretching the bounds of your marriage which may or may not cause you to have to end it. This is, I think, important. Boundaries are set mutually for a partnership, and individually for a person. The scenario Op is referencing seems to indicate that he is willing to let his spouse set the boundaries for both the marriage and for himself. That is wrong (difficult not to let happen, but wrong nonetheless). To the OP – I think that if you are even considering a trial seperation, you should approach it as the Japanese Samuri soldier used to approach battle. The samuri approached a battle as if he was already dead, thereby having no fear about dying. Living through a battle was a bonus. I think that you should approach the "trial seperation" in the same vein, as if it will lead to a divorce. if it doesn’t, then that is a bonus. Set the boundaries yourself as to what is acceptable and what is not. Tell her *exactly* what this means to you, and don’t do it in words, do it in writing. Tell her, for example, that from everything that you have read, trial seperations almost always do not lead to healthier marriages but rather to divorces. Tell her that, for example, you want to make the marriage better, and that your spouses happiness is very important to you, and so of course, yes changes are necessary. Tell her that if there is a trial seperation, you expect that it will lead to the marriage dissolving, but ifx, y and z happen, then the marriage will dissolve. Discuss with her, specifically, what steps are going to be taken to rebuild the marriage. If she is not willing to set a schedule and a workplan as to what is going to be done to rebuild the marriage before she moves out, or that she is indeed needing time to figure out how to make the marriage work better and that she commits (regardless of the worth of the commitment) to the marriage, then I really would just bite the bullet. The one thing that I wish in my situation is that I had come to my senses quicker than I did. Rambler Like Denise said, all you can do is the best you can do. Casey "It is easier to get older than it is to get wiser."
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Confusion said for all posterity… Though I hate it so, I feel compelled to say to her that if she moves out or will not seek counseling with me I will end the marriage… But to be honest with myself, when I wake up tomorrow morning I know I will feel different…. Am I just stupid?????? Who knows? I’ve certainly done things that I later decided were stupid. No one has the corner on that market. I guess my best advice is to look at the big picture, figure out where you want/need to head, and try hard to make that happen. It’s so easy to get caught up in daily or hourly emotional swings that can cause you to make decisions that you might later regret. It’s rough. You didn’t want to be in this position but yet it’s being forced on you. She’s stretching the bounds of your marriage which may or may not cause you to have to end it.
This is, I think, important. Boundaries are set mutually for a partnership, and individually for a person. The scenario Op is referencing seems to indicate that he is willing to let his spouse set the boundaries for both the marriage and for himself. That is wrong (difficult not to let happen, but wrong nonetheless). To the OP – I think that if you are even considering a trial seperation, you should approach it as the Japanese Samuri soldier used to approach battle. The samuri approached a battle as if he was already dead, thereby having no fear about dying. Living through a battle was a bonus. I think that you should approach the "trial seperation" in the same vein, as if it will lead to a divorce. if it doesn’t, then that is a bonus. Set the boundaries yourself as to what is acceptable and what is not. Tell her *exactly* what this means to you, and don’t do it in words, do it in writing. Tell her, for example, that from everything that you have read, trial seperations almost always do not lead to healthier marriages but rather to divorces. Tell her that, for example, you want to make the marriage better, and that your spouses happiness is very important to you, and so of course, yes changes are necessary. Tell her that if there is a trial seperation, you expect that it will lead to the marriage dissolving, but ifx, y and z happen, then the marriage will dissolve. Discuss with her, specifically, what steps are going to be taken to rebuild the marriage. If she is not willing to set a schedule and a workplan as to what is going to be done to rebuild the marriage before she moves out, or that she is indeed needing time to figure out how to make the marriage work better and that she commits (regardless of the worth of the commitment) to the marriage, then I really would just bite the bullet. The one thing that I wish in my situation is that I had come to my senses quicker than I did. Rambler – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Like Denise said, all you can do is the best you can do. Casey "It is easier to get older than it is to get wiser."
Response:
You can’t make someone do something. All you can do is probably what you have been doing. Talking, encouraging the counseling and being as supportive emotionally as you possibly can be. If she suffers from depression she is going to have to get some help for that. Again, you can’t make her do that. If you aren’t already in some sort of counseling for yourself I would suggest that. Can’t hurt.
Agreed on the counseling. Also, while you can’t make somebody do something, neither can you take responsibility for it. If she won’t fix her problems, that is not your fault. She is an adult, and does need to take care of herself. Rambler (A fine one to talk) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Denise Thanks Rambler – We have no children. We are talking and we have been having what I think to be good communications. We both cry together and realize we both have issues. However, she will not commit to us working it out. She too is in limbo – it’s kind of her personality anyway. I don’t know if I am starting to think she has found another person ? – everyone keeps telling me that is what it must be? I have confronted her with this but of course she says no. On the other side, maybe she does not feel I will be there for her if she did say she wants to stay in the marriage. Maybe she truly does not think it will change. That is why I think if I gave it some time. Like you said (a rollercoaster ride). I guess it really boils down to how long I can take it. I know there were times (many) when I had not been there for her emotionally. She can consume more than I can give at times. I kind of feel like this is my burden to carry to show her I am there and will do what it takes…. Then I start to hear people tell me she has found another guy and it all seems like a losing effort. My feelings are - it would be bad if she moved out and if I could just get her to go with me to counseling. If I could accomplish those two things, I would feel we were on the right track…. What can I do, if anything to save my marriage? You need to get a discussion going with her, one wheere she doesn’t feel overwhelmed, but one where you also indicate to her that you realize the rules have changed a little (i.e. you can’t go back to what you had, because while you might want that, she obviously doesn’t) so you need to go forward to what you can have. I know it sucks, and I won’t tell you it is easy to do (I tried and failed, despite having three kids, but part of the problem might have been that I was looking to get "back" to the good times, as opposed to forward to them. Keep trying to get into counseling, but also prepare yourself for the dissolution of the marriage. If she isn’t willing to talk, it isn’t really going to happen, which is not what you want to hear, but in reality you will most probably be doing a lot of fooling yourself right now because your heart wants the whole thing to keep going. Realize that it is a rollercoaster, and it is going to smack you, hard, repeatedly. If you have little kids, do everything in your power to protect them, because this hurts them very badly, and they are innocent victims. The "I am not in love with you" seems to be a code word of "I want out but don’t want to feel guilty for causing this." Hang in, rant to friends or in here, ask questions. Cheers, Rambler confusion said for all posterity… My wife and I have been married for almost nine years and had lived with each other about two to three years prior to getting married. She has told me about a month ago she wants to move out of our home. She is not "in love" with me anymore. She loves me in a caring fashion. She is not seeking a divorce but needs time alone to think about things. This comes up so often. It is not at all unlikely that someone else is already in the picture. "Needing time" to be alone and to think things often means needing time to spend with someone else. I know this is kind a "normal" grieving process and things will get better – But, will they get better while in this limbo? I am confused as to where to go from here? If she moves out then what? If she moves out, the chances are really good that your marriage is over. I’m sorry, but this is the reality of it (as I see it). I can not come close to explaining it all. I just wanted to hear some advise? Can it get better if she moves out and we just see what happens? If we got counseling together I could feel we were doing something positive… Should I just at least give her some time alone? What is alone? How much time? How much separation? Or do I try with all my heart to try to save the marriage if she is not interested? Am I just kidding myself that the marriage can be saved? Am I just not dealing with the reality of it? No, I don’t think the true reality of it has soaked in yet. Most likely, things will not get better for your marriage after she moves out. That’s not why she’s doing that. Her time alone will not be spent trying to save your marriage. Just my opinion… Casey "It is easier to get older than it is to get wiser."
Response:
Thanks for all the input and insight….Though the worst may be yet to come, it does help to have some daily place to bounce things off of…. Its less expensive than the therapist to!
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Confusion said for all posterity… Though I hate it so, I feel compelled to say to her that if she moves out or will not seek counseling with me I will end the marriage… But to be honest with myself, when I wake up tomorrow morning I know I will feel different…. Am I just stupid?????? Who knows? I’ve certainly done things that I later decided were stupid. No one has the corner on that market. I guess my best advice is to look at the big picture, figure out where you want/need to head, and try hard to make that happen. It’s so easy to get caught up in daily or hourly emotional swings that can cause you to make decisions that you might later regret. It’s rough. You didn’t want to be in this position but yet it’s being forced on you. She’s stretching the bounds of your marriage which may or may not cause you to have to end it. Like Denise said, all you can do is the best you can do. Casey "It is easier to get older than it is to get wiser."
Response:
Confusion said for all posterity… Though I hate it so, I feel compelled to say to her that if she moves out or will not seek counseling with me I will end the marriage… But to be honest with myself, when I wake up tomorrow morning I know I will feel different…. Am I just stupid??????
Who knows? I’ve certainly done things that I later decided were stupid. No one has the corner on that market. I guess my best advice is to look at the big picture, figure out where you want/need to head, and try hard to make that happen. It’s so easy to get caught up in daily or hourly emotional swings that can cause you to make decisions that you might later regret. It’s rough. You didn’t want to be in this position but yet it’s being forced on you. She’s stretching the bounds of your marriage which may or may not cause you to have to end it. Like Denise said, all you can do is the best you can do. Casey "It is easier to get older than it is to get wiser."
Response:
Am I just stupid??????
If you are, you’re in good company. ;-/ Sunee ~ To let go is not to deny but to accept. ~
Response:
"Confusion" wrote "Am I just stupid??????" None of us are in a position to answer that one. All you can do is the best you can do. Just try not to be too hard on yourself. Denise – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – NewLife said for all posterity… Similar story to mine. In the end this is what I learned about "wanting space" and moving out. She wanted a divorce but did not want the guilt of pursuing it and she wanted to see if the grass was greener on the other side. She put me through hell, so in the end I filed for divorce, which removed all guilt from her just like she wanted. But, I believe she realized the grass was not greener on the other side. She realized it too late. Your situation may be the same. My situation was a lot like yours. I had to push the divorce through. She kept telling me she would go along with it, but it was just a stall tactic so she could have more time to run around. She was extremely reluctant and dragged her feet when it came down to actually signing the papers. I have a feeling once the spouse moves out it is over. Also, I would recommend talking with her to make sure each of you agrees on the boundries of this separation. Are you allowed to see other people…things like that. You may be shocked at what she says, I was. Yep. However, in the early days of the road to divorce, mine declared that she could move out for some "space" and that there would be no sleeping with anyone else. Yeah, right. Shortly thereafter she started sleeping around while still living with me and before any serious divorce talk. What someone says their behavior will be like isn’t necessarily true. Being in limbo sux worse than the actuall divorce. No human can be in that type of limbo for long without having a breakdown. Good luck. I agree. Limbo = hell. At least after a divorce you have some hope of rebuilding your life. Casey "It is easier to get older than it is to get wiser."
Response:
Though I hate it so, I feel compelled to say to her that if she moves out or will not seek counseling with me I will end the marriage… But to be honest with myself, when I wake up tomorrow morning I know I will feel different…. Am I just stupid??????
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – NewLife said for all posterity… Similar story to mine. In the end this is what I learned about "wanting space" and moving out. She wanted a divorce but did not want the guilt of pursuing it and she wanted to see if the grass was greener on the other side. She put me through hell, so in the end I filed for divorce, which removed all guilt from her just like she wanted. But, I believe she realized the grass was not greener on the other side. She realized it too late. Your situation may be the same. My situation was a lot like yours. I had to push the divorce through. She kept telling me she would go along with it, but it was just a stall tactic so she could have more time to run around. She was extremely reluctant and dragged her feet when it came down to actually signing the papers. I have a feeling once the spouse moves out it is over. Also, I would recommend talking with her to make sure each of you agrees on the boundries of this separation. Are you allowed to see other people…things like that. You may be shocked at what she says, I was. Yep. However, in the early days of the road to divorce, mine declared that she could move out for some "space" and that there would be no sleeping with anyone else. Yeah, right. Shortly thereafter she started sleeping around while still living with me and before any serious divorce talk. What someone says their behavior will be like isn’t necessarily true. Being in limbo sux worse than the actuall divorce. No human can be in that type of limbo for long without having a breakdown. Good luck. I agree. Limbo = hell. At least after a divorce you have some hope of rebuilding your life. Casey "It is easier to get older than it is to get wiser."
Response:
NewLife said for all posterity… Similar story to mine. In the end this is what I learned about "wanting space" and moving out. She wanted a divorce but did not want the guilt of pursuing it and she wanted to see if the grass was greener on the other side. She put me through hell, so in the end I filed for divorce, which removed all guilt from her just like she wanted. But, I believe she realized the grass was not greener on the other side. She realized it too late. Your situation may be the same.
My situation was a lot like yours. I had to push the divorce through. She kept telling me she would go along with it, but it was just a stall tactic so she could have more time to run around. She was extremely reluctant and dragged her feet when it came down to actually signing the papers. I have a feeling once the spouse moves out it is over. Also, I would recommend talking with her to make sure each of you agrees on the boundries of this separation. Are you allowed to see other people…things like that. You may be shocked at what she says, I was.
Yep. However, in the early days of the road to divorce, mine declared that she could move out for some "space" and that there would be no sleeping with anyone else. Yeah, right. Shortly thereafter she started sleeping around while still living with me and before any serious divorce talk. What someone says their behavior will be like isn’t necessarily true. Being in limbo sux worse than the actuall divorce. No human can be in that type of limbo for long without having a breakdown. Good luck.
I agree. Limbo = hell. At least after a divorce you have some hope of rebuilding your life. Casey "It is easier to get older than it is to get wiser."
Response:
Thanks Rambler – We have no children. We are talking and we have been having what I think to be good communications. We both cry together and realize we both have issues. However, she will not commit to us working it out. She too is in limbo – it’s kind of her personality anyway. I don’t know if I am starting to think she has found another person ? - everyone keeps telling me that is what it must be? I have confronted her with this but of course she says no. On the other side, maybe she does not feel I will be there for her if she did say she wants to stay in the marriage. Maybe she truly does not think it will change. That is why I think if I gave it some time. Like you said (a rollercoaster ride). I guess it really boils down to how long I can take it. I know there were times (many) when I had not been there for her emotionally. She can consume more than I can give at times. I kind of feel like this is my burden to carry to show her I am there and will do what it takes…. Then I start to hear people tell me she has found another guy and it all seems like a losing effort. My feelings are - it would be bad if she moved out and if I could just get her to go with me to counseling. If I could accomplish those two things, I would feel we were on the right track….
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – What can I do, if anything to save my marriage? You need to get a discussion going with her, one wheere she doesn’t feel overwhelmed, but one where you also indicate to her that you realize the rules have changed a little (i.e. you can’t go back to what you had, because while you might want that, she obviously doesn’t) so you need to go forward to what you can have. I know it sucks, and I won’t tell you it is easy to do (I tried and failed, despite having three kids, but part of the problem might have been that I was looking to get "back" to the good times, as opposed to forward to them. Keep trying to get into counseling, but also prepare yourself for the dissolution of the marriage. If she isn’t willing to talk, it isn’t really going to happen, which is not what you want to hear, but in reality you will most probably be doing a lot of fooling yourself right now because your heart wants the whole thing to keep going. Realize that it is a rollercoaster, and it is going to smack you, hard, repeatedly. If you have little kids, do everything in your power to protect them, because this hurts them very badly, and they are innocent victims. The "I am not in love with you" seems to be a code word of "I want out but don’t want to feel guilty for causing this." Hang in, rant to friends or in here, ask questions. Cheers, Rambler confusion said for all posterity… My wife and I have been married for almost nine years and had lived with each other about two to three years prior to getting married. She has told me about a month ago she wants to move out of our home. She is not "in love" with me anymore. She loves me in a caring fashion. She is not seeking a divorce but needs time alone to think about things. This comes up so often. It is not at all unlikely that someone else is already in the picture. "Needing time" to be alone and to think things often means needing time to spend with someone else. I know this is kind a "normal" grieving process and things will get better – But, will they get better while in this limbo? I am confused as to where to go from here? If she moves out then what? If she moves out, the chances are really good that your marriage is over. I’m sorry, but this is the reality of it (as I see it). I can not come close to explaining it all. I just wanted to hear some advise? Can it get better if she moves out and we just see what happens? If we got counseling together I could feel we were doing something positive… Should I just at least give her some time alone? What is alone? How much time? How much separation? Or do I try with all my heart to try to save the marriage if she is not interested? Am I just kidding myself that the marriage can be saved? Am I just not dealing with the reality of it? No, I don’t think the true reality of it has soaked in yet. Most likely, things will not get better for your marriage after she moves out. That’s not why she’s doing that. Her time alone will not be spent trying to save your marriage. Just my opinion… Casey "It is easier to get older than it is to get wiser."
Response:
Confusion said for all posterity… You may think I am naive but what if there is no boy-toy. What if she needs that space. About five years ago she tried to cut her wrist. It was a superficial cut but the fact that she did that said something. Depression runs in her family? Other than some small bouts of depression she has always appreared OK.
Depression is a serious thing and if she really is depressed, she needs to seek help. Otherwise, if she needs "space" now, how is she going to handle it when you want to take the space away again? I’ve always had a rather cynical view of "needing space". Too many times it equates to "needing privacy" for extramarital activities. Do I at least owe it to her for some time? Or if she is having an affair. I know there were things I could had been better at. Are there any such do’s or don’t(s) if the spouse is having an affair?
I hope you aren’t considering giving your spouse the time and lattitude to have an affair while you wait. As far as do’s or don’ts go – don’t sit back and let it happen… do tell her the affair has to end or the marriage is over. I know there is no simple answer and it has to be mine. However, I do appreciate the input.
My input is that you seem to be going along with whatever she wants. I went through hell politely divorcing my wife while she invented her own space and pursued the greener pastures with a vengeance. You have to insist on some rules and be willing to follow through if she doesn’t agree. In my case, my ex began acting single (I’m wording this politely) but she kept trying to reel me back in by saying she wasn’t sure she wanted a divorce and just give her more time. She wanted the safety net of being legally married to me while pursuing those green pastures like a single woman. To her it was the best of both worlds. Make sure you aren’t enabling that with your wife. By the way, she’s single now… and alone. All of those green pastures must have turned brown. Casey "It is easier to get older than it is to get wiser."
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Thanks Rambler – We have no children. We are talking and we have been having what I think to be good communications. We both cry together and realize we both have issues. However, she will not commit to us working it out. She too is in limbo – it’s kind of her personality anyway. I don’t know if I am starting to think she has found another person ? - everyone keeps telling me that is what it must be? I have confronted her with this but of course she says no. On the other side, maybe she does not feel I will be there for her if she did say she wants to stay in the marriage. Maybe she truly does not think it will change. That is why I think if I gave it some time. Like you said (a rollercoaster ride). I guess it really boils down to how long I can take it. I know there were times (many) when I had not been there for her emotionally. She can consume more than I can give at times. I kind of feel like this is my burden to carry to show her I am there and will do what it takes…. Then I start to hear people tell me she has found another guy and it all seems like a losing effort. My feelings are - it would be bad if she moved out and if I could just get her to go with me to counseling. If I could accomplish those two things, I would feel we were on the right track….
Yours isn’t the context in which I usually recommend this book, but for some reason I have a gut feeling that it might be useful to you (or possibly your wife). It might at least give you some insight into whether or not the end of the marriage would be as bad as you think, and possibly it might give you some insight into what your wife is going through. The book is Too Good to Leave, Too Bad to Stay, by Mira Kirshenbaum. Excerpts can be read here: http://www.geocities.com/HotSprings/Villa/9645/leavestay.htm
Response:
Similar story to mine. In the end this is what I learned about "wanting space" and moving out. She wanted a divorce but did not want the guilt of pursuing it and she wanted to see if the grass was greener on the other side. She put me through hell, so in the end I filed for divorce, which removed all guilt from her just like she wanted. But, I believe she realized the grass was not greener on the other side. She realized it too late. Your situation may be the same. I have a feeling once the spouse moves out it is over. Also, I would recommend talking with her to make sure each of you agrees on the boundries of this separation. Are you allowed to see other people…things like that. You may be shocked at what she says, I was. Being in limbo sux worse than the actuall divorce. No human can be in that type of limbo for long without having a breakdown. Good luck.
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – You may think I am naive but what if there is no boy-toy. What if she needs that space. About five years ago she tried to cut her wrist. It was a superficial cut but the fact that she did that said something. Depression runs in her family? Other than some small bouts of depression she has always appreared OK. Do I at least owe it to her for some time? Or if she is having an affair. I know there were things I could had been better at. Are there any such do’s or don’t(s) if the spouse is having an affair? I know there is no simple answer and it has to be mine. However, I do appreciate the input. I can not come close to explaining it all. I just wanted to hear some advise? Can it get better if she moves out and we just see what happens? She wants to see if her boy-toy is going to work out, and if he doesn’t, she’ll come back to you and say she "wants to work it out" with you.
Response:
You can’t make someone do something. All you can do is probably what you have been doing. Talking, encouraging the counseling and being as supportive emotionally as you possibly can be. If she suffers from depression she is going to have to get some help for that. Again, you can’t make her do that. If you aren’t already in some sort of counseling for yourself I would suggest that. Can’t hurt. Denise
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Thanks Rambler – We have no children. We are talking and we have been having what I think to be good communications. We both cry together and realize we both have issues. However, she will not commit to us working it out. She too is in limbo – it’s kind of her personality anyway. I don’t know if I am starting to think she has found another person ? - everyone keeps telling me that is what it must be? I have confronted her with this but of course she says no. On the other side, maybe she does not feel I will be there for her if she did say she wants to stay in the marriage. Maybe she truly does not think it will change. That is why I think if I gave it some time. Like you said (a rollercoaster ride). I guess it really boils down to how long I can take it. I know there were times (many) when I had not been there for her emotionally. She can consume more than I can give at times. I kind of feel like this is my burden to carry to show her I am there and will do what it takes…. Then I start to hear people tell me she has found another guy and it all seems like a losing effort. My feelings are - it would be bad if she moved out and if I could just get her to go with me to counseling. If I could accomplish those two things, I would feel we were on the right track…. What can I do, if anything to save my marriage? You need to get a discussion going with her, one wheere she doesn’t feel overwhelmed, but one where you also indicate to her that you realize the rules have changed a little (i.e. you can’t go back to what you had, because while you might want that, she obviously doesn’t) so you need to go forward to what you can have. I know it sucks, and I won’t tell you it is easy to do (I tried and failed, despite having three kids, but part of the problem might have been that I was looking to get "back" to the good times, as opposed to forward to them. Keep trying to get into counseling, but also prepare yourself for the dissolution of the marriage. If she isn’t willing to talk, it isn’t really going to happen, which is not what you want to hear, but in reality you will most probably be doing a lot of fooling yourself right now because your heart wants the whole thing to keep going. Realize that it is a rollercoaster, and it is going to smack you, hard, repeatedly. If you have little kids, do everything in your power to protect them, because this hurts them very badly, and they are innocent victims. The "I am not in love with you" seems to be a code word of "I want out but don’t want to feel guilty for causing this." Hang in, rant to friends or in here, ask questions. Cheers, Rambler confusion said for all posterity… My wife and I have been married for almost nine years and had lived with each other about two to three years prior to getting married. She has told me about a month ago she wants to move out of our home. She is not "in love" with me anymore. She loves me in a caring fashion. She is not seeking a divorce but needs time alone to think about things. This comes up so often. It is not at all unlikely that someone else is already in the picture. "Needing time" to be alone and to think things often means needing time to spend with someone else. I know this is kind a "normal" grieving process and things will get better – But, will they get better while in this limbo? I am confused as to where to go from here? If she moves out then what? If she moves out, the chances are really good that your marriage is over. I’m sorry, but this is the reality of it (as I see it). I can not come close to explaining it all. I just wanted to hear some advise? Can it get better if she moves out and we just see what happens? If we got counseling together I could feel we were doing something positive… Should I just at least give her some time alone? What is alone? How much time? How much separation? Or do I try with all my heart to try to save the marriage if she is not interested? Am I just kidding myself that the marriage can be saved? Am I just not dealing with the reality of it? No, I don’t think the true reality of it has soaked in yet. Most likely, things will not get better for your marriage after she moves out. That’s not why she’s doing that. Her time alone will not be spent trying to save your marriage. Just my opinion… Casey "It is easier to get older than it is to get wiser."
Response:
My wife and I have been married for almost nine years and had lived with each other about two to three years prior to getting married. She has told me about a month ago she wants to move out of our home. She is not "in love" with me anymore. She loves me in a caring fashion. She is not seeking a divorce but needs time alone to think about things. I know we did not have a perfect marriage but I never thought we were at this point. I still love her and do not want her to move out. However, she says she is unhappy. It is so hard to put everything into words to explain the situation? Right now I feel OK but sometimes it gets hard. I can’t help but think of all of the times we had together. All of our dreams. Sometimes it’s hard to feel excited about anything. I know this is kind a "normal" grieving process and things will get better – But, will they get better while in this limbo? I am confused as to where to go from here? If she moves out then what? Currently she is not interested in marriage counseling. We did go about one and a half years ago. I did not think it helped because nothing changed. The end result of it was she said she just did not think I loved or cared for her. Now she says that she has tried hard to live up to my expectations and it makes her unhappy. Maybe I am wrong but it seems like she keeps looking at all the negative things. In my mind, the negative is such a small amount of the time.. I am not trying to dismiss her feelings… Again, I know I’m not perfect but when we talk about it, she usually ends up saying its her problem. Then the next time, it’s me again and all the things I did not do??????? I can not come close to explaining it all. I just wanted to hear some advise? Can it get better if she moves out and we just see what happens? If we got counseling together I could feel we were doing something positive… Should I just at least give her some time alone? What is alone? How much time? How much separation? Or do I try with all my heart to try to save the marriage if she is not interested? Am I just kidding myself that the marriage can be saved? Am I just not dealing with the reality of it? I may only feel OK now because she has not moved out yet. She says she does not think we can work it out but on the other side she is not ready to say lets divorce? Right now I am not depressed as much as confused and numb. When she does in fact move, I know another level of pain communicating very much but she appears set on moving out??? I just started going to counseling by myself so far though if I could just get her to go with me……. Just wanted some thoughts…….
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confusion said for all posterity… My wife and I have been married for almost nine years and had lived with each other about two to three years prior to getting married. She has told me about a month ago she wants to move out of our home. She is not "in love" with me anymore. She loves me in a caring fashion. She is not seeking a divorce but needs time alone to think about things.
This comes up so often. It is not at all unlikely that someone else is already in the picture. "Needing time" to be alone and to think things often means needing time to spend with someone else. I know this is kind a "normal" grieving process and things will get better – But, will they get better while in this limbo? I am confused as to where to go from here? If she moves out then what?
If she moves out, the chances are really good that your marriage is over. I’m sorry, but this is the reality of it (as I see it). I can not come close to explaining it all. I just wanted to hear some advise? Can it get better if she moves out and we just see what happens? If we got counseling together I could feel we were doing something positive… Should I just at least give her some time alone? What is alone? How much time? How much separation? Or do I try with all my heart to try to save the marriage if she is not interested? Am I just kidding myself that the marriage can be saved? Am I just not dealing with the reality of it?
No, I don’t think the true reality of it has soaked in yet. Most likely, things will not get better for your marriage after she moves out. That’s not why she’s doing that. Her time alone will not be spent trying to save your marriage. Just my opinion… Casey "It is easier to get older than it is to get wiser."
Response:
I can not come close to explaining it all. I just wanted to hear some advise? Can it get better if she moves out and we just see what happens?
She wants to see if her boy-toy is going to work out, and if he doesn’t, she’ll come back to you and say she "wants to work it out" with you.
Response:
What can I do, if anything to save my marriage?
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – confusion said for all posterity… My wife and I have been married for almost nine years and had lived with each other about two to three years prior to getting married. She has told me about a month ago she wants to move out of our home. She is not "in love" with me anymore. She loves me in a caring fashion. She is not seeking a divorce but needs time alone to think about things. This comes up so often. It is not at all unlikely that someone else is already in the picture. "Needing time" to be alone and to think things often means needing time to spend with someone else. I know this is kind a "normal" grieving process and things will get better – But, will they get better while in this limbo? I am confused as to where to go from here? If she moves out then what? If she moves out, the chances are really good that your marriage is over. I’m sorry, but this is the reality of it (as I see it). I can not come close to explaining it all. I just wanted to hear some advise? Can it get better if she moves out and we just see what happens? If we got counseling together I could feel we were doing something positive… Should I just at least give her some time alone? What is alone? How much time? How much separation? Or do I try with all my heart to try to save the marriage if she is not interested? Am I just kidding myself that the marriage can be saved? Am I just not dealing with the reality of it? No, I don’t think the true reality of it has soaked in yet. Most likely, things will not get better for your marriage after she moves out. That’s not why she’s doing that. Her time alone will not be spent trying to save your marriage. Just my opinion… Casey "It is easier to get older than it is to get wiser."
Response:
You may think I am naive but what if there is no boy-toy. What if she needs that space. About five years ago she tried to cut her wrist. It was a superficial cut but the fact that she did that said something. Depression runs in her family? Other than some small bouts of depression she has always appreared OK. Do I at least owe it to her for some time? Or if she is having an affair. I know there were things I could had been better at. Are there any such do’s or don’t(s) if the spouse is having an affair? I know there is no simple answer and it has to be mine. However, I do appreciate the input.
I think what Joe and Casey are trying to get across is that most very typically (I don’t have a percentage but my gut would say 95% of the time) seperating leads to divorce. You can’t work on an institution of marriage, something that is a *partnership* between two people, when you are not interacting. The only thing that you can do is work on yourself. And any bad feelings that you might have about your partner will only get amplified because there is nothing to balance them against. My ex wanted "space" to find herself. Her mother even encoruaged it (so the ex could up and take the kids half-way around the world to be with her Mom). When I mentioned what many had told me (a psychologist I was seeing, pop psychology books, the GP (family doc)), that seperation almost always leads to a divorce, she just denied it. A marriage counselor and her (marriage counselor was psychotic) both said that seperation *did not* mean divorce, and that nobody was talking about divorce, yet I found out later that two months prior to that the ex had been emailing her mom to arrange for a divorce filing as soon as she got back to the United States – so in short, she lied. I don’t know about the boy toy aspect. I have heard that said many, many times, not just here but in a divorce group that I went to for six months or so after the seperation. Could be true, and could be that we just don’t want to see it. You need some serious talking. Rambler – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I can not come close to explaining it all. I just wanted to hear some advise? Can it get better if she moves out and we just see what happens? She wants to see if her boy-toy is going to work out, and if he doesn’t, she’ll come back to you and say she "wants to work it out" with you.
Response:
What can I do, if anything to save my marriage?
You need to get a discussion going with her, one wheere she doesn’t feel overwhelmed, but one where you also indicate to her that you realize the rules have changed a little (i.e. you can’t go back to what you had, because while you might want that, she obviously doesn’t) so you need to go forward to what you can have. I know it sucks, and I won’t tell you it is easy to do (I tried and failed, despite having three kids, but part of the problem might have been that I was looking to get "back" to the good times, as opposed to forward to them. Keep trying to get into counseling, but also prepare yourself for the dissolution of the marriage. If she isn’t willing to talk, it isn’t really going to happen, which is not what you want to hear, but in reality you will most probably be doing a lot of fooling yourself right now because your heart wants the whole thing to keep going. Realize that it is a rollercoaster, and it is going to smack you, hard, repeatedly. If you have little kids, do everything in your power to protect them, because this hurts them very badly, and they are innocent victims. The "I am not in love with you" seems to be a code word of "I want out but don’t want to feel guilty for causing this." Hang in, rant to friends or in here, ask questions. Cheers, Rambler – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – confusion said for all posterity… My wife and I have been married for almost nine years and had lived with each other about two to three years prior to getting married. She has told me about a month ago she wants to move out of our home. She is not "in love" with me anymore. She loves me in a caring fashion. She is not seeking a divorce but needs time alone to think about things. This comes up so often. It is not at all unlikely that someone else is already in the picture. "Needing time" to be alone and to think things often means needing time to spend with someone else. I know this is kind a "normal" grieving process and things will get better – But, will they get better while in this limbo? I am confused as to where to go from here? If she moves out then what? If she moves out, the chances are really good that your marriage is over. I’m sorry, but this is the reality of it (as I see it). I can not come close to explaining it all. I just wanted to hear some advise? Can it get better if she moves out and we just see what happens? If we got counseling together I could feel we were doing something positive… Should I just at least give her some time alone? What is alone? How much time? How much separation? Or do I try with all my heart to try to save the marriage if she is not interested? Am I just kidding myself that the marriage can be saved? Am I just not dealing with the reality of it? No, I don’t think the true reality of it has soaked in yet. Most likely, things will not get better for your marriage after she moves out. That’s not why she’s doing that. Her time alone will not be spent trying to save your marriage. Just my opinion… Casey "It is easier to get older than it is to get wiser."
Response:
You may think I am naive but what if there is no boy-toy. What if she needs that space. About five years ago she tried to cut her wrist. It was a superficial cut but the fact that she did that said something. Depression runs in her family? Other than some small bouts of depression she has always appreared OK. Do I at least owe it to her for some time? Or if she is having an affair. I know there were things I could had been better at. Are there any such do’s or don’t(s) if the spouse is having an affair? I know there is no simple answer and it has to be mine. However, I do appreciate the input. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I can not come close to explaining it all. I just wanted to hear some advise? Can it get better if she moves out and we just see what happens? She wants to see if her boy-toy is going to work out, and if he doesn’t, she’ll come back to you and say she "wants to work it out" with you.
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