Depression Learning

An alt.support.depression Sampler – part 1 of 3

Question:

Archive-name: alt-support-depression/An-ASD-Sampler/part1 Posting-Frequency: bi-weekly Last-modified: 1997/09/22                An alt.support.depression Sampler Is this an "official" post of some kind??         No.  This is *not* an official post of alt.support.depression (ASD).  This post (in 3 parts) has been approved by the moderators of the *.answers usenet newsgroups.  Approval by the moderators of the *.answers newsgroups means that; (1) these posts can appear on alt.support.depression, news.answers, and alt.answers (2) these posts will be archived on the rtfm.mit.edu anonymous FTP server         (ftp://rtfm.mit.edu/pub/usenet-by-hierarchy/alt/support/depression/) (3) these posts can be "autoposted" using a FAQ server run by rtfm.mit.edu. Is this some kind of FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions)??         Over the 2 years that I have been reading alt.support.depression (ASD), there have been many discussions about what should or should not be posted, and about what this group is or is not.  On several occasions people have suggested that a FAQ be formulated to put down on paper (as it were) the expectations that members of this group have of each other.  I am sorry, and happy, to say that I have not been able to compile such a document.  If this is a FAQ, then it is a very unconventional FAQ.  Aside from the FAQ-style Questions and Answers here in the beginning of this post, that explain what this post is and is not, the rest of this post does not conform to the usual FAQ format. If this is not a FAQ, then what the heck is it??         This alt.support.depression Sampler is an attempt to collect some of the simple expressions of personal experience that make alt.support.depression (ASD) such an important place.  This Sampler cannot be all things to all people.  Most of the posts to ASD will never find their way into this Sampler simply because this is only a *very* small "sample" of what is posted to ASD, and because so much of ASD simply does not fit into this very limited and constrained format.  Anything less than the whole of every single post to ASD reflects the hand of whomever chooses to sift and winnow through the 300+ posts that find their way to ASD each day.  Thus this Sampler reveals as much about myself and my own personal values, as it does about ASD and the people who participate here.         Although I sometimes find life very painful, I personally do not really want to die.  But to leave ASD is to die here in metaphor.  So, when I leave ASD, I would like to leave behind a little bit of myself so that I might somehow live on.  I thought this list might be a good way to do that. Perhaps this Sampler can act as an "indirect FAQ by example" for ASD.  In a way, I guess this Sampler provides an indirect and rambling answer to the question "what is this newsgroup all about".  The real and complete answer to this question, however, cannot be contained in any summary, digest, or sampler.  The real answer to this question can only be found in the statement "this group is what we make it when we post to it".  The real answer to this question can only be found here on ASD each and every day. If I don’t have a post here, does it mean that all of my posts are worthless??         No.  Absolutely not.  As I said above, this is only a *very* small sample of ASD, and most of ASD simply does not fit this format.  In addition, about 90% of the entries here were chosen by me.  So if your words are not found in this Sampler, then it likely means that *I* did not, for whatever random or twisted reasons, pick out something that you have said.  I really wish you would nominate something you said. If I don’t have a post here, does it mean that I am worthless??         No.  Absolutely not.  See the answer to the question above. Is this list static, or set in stone??         No.  It is my personal belief that this ASD Sampler is only useful if it continues to be updated by those who read ASD.  Not only is the content of this list modified by what people say on ASD, but even the very name of this list has been modified based on feedback from readers.  If you have read or said something that you think should be included here then not the person who posted what you submitted to me, then I will try to contact the original "owner" of the post and ask them if they mind that we include their words in this list. Where can I find a "real" FAQ for ASD??         There are other informal FAQ-style posts that appear on ASD from time to time.  However, the only FAQ-style post that is currently approved by the moderators of *.answers for posting on ASD is the "alt.support.depression FAQ" (in 5 parts).  This FAQ is very informative with respect to depression, but it contains relatively little information related specifically to ASD.  For more information related specifically to ASD, you should check out http://www.lava.net/~dewilson/asd/resources.html as a resource. 2, 4, 6, 8, who do we appreciate??         If it is not obvious, I want to thank all of those who have consented to have their words placed here.  In addition, I want to thank in advance anyone who responds and gives me feedback of any kind.  If you find anything on this list that you do not like for any reason, please let me know. So where is this ASD Sampler already??         It starts right below.  It is in three parts, with the oldest quotes first and the most recent quotes at the end of the third part.    An alt.support.depression Sampler,  part 1 of 3

        Like my ideas, feelings, opinions, and actions are somehow invalid or otherwise compromised because I was in the loony bin, or because I have faulty brain chemistry and an American Tourister showroom full of baggage.

Subject line: A message from your mother         It’s a lovely day outside!!  Would you PLEASE stop spending so much time at that computer.  Why don’t you at least take a little walk, get some fresh air?  A little physical activity wouldn’t hurt you.  Don’t forget to wear your jacket!!         Cindi pulling on her flame retardant leather undies.

        Ever been told you’re "overqualified" for the position available? Now what the fuck is that supposed to mean, and what can you possibly say in return?  "Oh, don’t worry, I’m much dumber than my resume makes me out to be?"

        Today I feel ill, dizzy, and weak, my guts in turmoil.  And while I’m reasonably certain this is so, I wonder if my head has directed my body to misbehave.  There is plenty to be angry about these days and I cannot be sure if it is swallowed food or swallowed anger that has made me ill.

        Over and over again the Bible says, "Believe in God, and you will see good things happen."  The Bible has it completely backwards, I think. A true profession of faith is, instead, "See good things in what happens, and you will believe in God!"  Religious beliefs ask us to celebrate the good things in life.  To seek them out, and enjoy what pleasures we can while we are alive.  Thus, the proper prayer of thanksgiving is not, "Thank you God, for all of the great things in my life", but rather, "Thank you, God, for giving me the ability to enjoy what pleasures there are in my life!"         If someone says "I think shock therapy is so great that everyone should try it", and you don’t agree, the proper response ought to be; "Many people have had a bad experience with shock treatment and it is not for everyone".  One should NOT say;  "You are obviously the product of 200 years of inbreeding, and you are a moronic insensitive clod who should take your asinine opinions elsewhere".

        I will send you directions on how to assemble these lights along with a materials list and directions for use.  I am a Clinical Psychologist with 10 years experience treating SAD (Seasonal Affective Disorder).  Send $5.00 along with a stamped, self addressed envelope to….         Of course, you COULD just post that info here on ASD and let everybody have it for free, but I guess that wouldn’t be the American way, would it?   <sigh signature file:         The opinions given above may be mine.  They might also just be what I feel like saying right now, okay? support groups:         Available for your inspection.  A medical emergency I.D. card that could save your life.  For complete information go to . . . (www-site-deleted).         I want a card that says  "No, I really mean it this time.  Please leave me alone." reduced expectations":         Life is good.  My toilet hasn’t overflowed once today.

        Am I asking for suggestions or advice?  I suppose.  Whatever I get will be stored away in my mailbox for those furtive moments when I have the energy to read and respond to them.  Mostly, I am just glad for a newsgroup where I can beak off and blurb it all out and that’s okay.

        I managed to crawl out of the

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Response:

Archive-name: alt-support-depression/An-ASD-Sampler/part2 Posting-Frequency: bi-weekly Last-modified: 1997/09/22    An alt.support.depression Sampler,  part 2 of 3

        Everything I say is so stupid, trite, and unhelpful.  All I can do is say; "sorry you feel that way, here’s some hugs".  Hugs are good, Karent The Hugmaster knows that, but it’s just so little, so stupid.  I’m sorry here.  I’m going to act like a child & whine; Do my posts make ANYBODY feel any better?  Or should I just be quiet?  I’m feeling really down and tense. Hubby is away for the week at a convention – every day I’m slipping lower and lower.  Actually in a way it’s kinda nice him not being here – one less body bugging me, but I’m lonely.  SEE!  I can’t be happy either way!  When he’s here I get annoyed with him for not just letting me vege, but when he’s not here I get lonely and slip down.  I hate this shit.  I hate my life.  Sometimes I even hate this stupid newsgroup – takes up so much of my time.  Sorry for all the ranting and whining

        This is my first post after some time of just lurking and trying to figure out this newsgroup.  Can’t really say I have succeeded in the latter yet.  What I am wondering is this:  where does one find support?  After years of appearing normal while dying inside I have a circle of friends and relatives and coworkers who do not know that I am depressed.  I have kept up appearances for work and family.  But now I am tired, I am lonely, and I wish I had somebody to just share with, someone who understands but doesn’t think he has to fix things.         Here is a scripture that may benefit you as it has me:  "Have not I commanded thee?  Be strong and of good courage.  Be not afraid, neither be thou dismayed.  For the LORD thy God is with thee whithersoever thou goest."  (King James Version, Joshua 1:9)         I actually do believe that God has helped me in my life.  But for those of us with a chemical depression requiring medication, our belief in God is simply not enough.  We have an illness, NOT necessarily a lack of faith.

        Does anyone else feel like slapping a therapist who says;  "and how do you *feel* about that?"         There can only be so many polite variations of;  "Will you stop blathering on and on about all this tosh as though it mattered!  We are here to talk about your feelings, moods, and emotions.  It’s your reactions to this stuff that I need, not who did what to whom and with which garden implement.  If you don’t tell me what’s going on inside you, then I’ll have to poke you in the squidgy bits with a cattle prod every so often. <BbzZzt!".         I suspect they learn not to use *that* approach too often.

        Hi, I’m new here.  Ummm, I get depressed sometimes.  I’m in high school.  I love reading all your posts.  Guess I read too many of them. Really gotta go.  I’ll talk more tomorrow. river rat responded with:         Welcome Sara.  I’m new here too.  Keep posting and let us know if you’re okay.  I had my first depressive episode at age 15 in the 10th grade, but nobody knew what was going on.  If you stay down for more than a couple of weeks at a time, maybe you should talk to somebody who has good information and who can help.  You know, I think I read too many of these ASD posts too.         I would like to express my deepest and most grateful thanks to ASD. I had intended to write to each of you personally.  However, in another stunning display of catatonic tapioca brain, I managed to delete my entire list of messages.

        I am befuddled as to how everyone discusses their depression on the Internet.  How do you go to or begin counseling when you are uncomfortable talking about anything pertaining to yourself, especially your depression? Everything is so complicated.         I can relate to that uncanny fear of trying to speak of feelings to someone who is right there physically, looking at you.  If you are like me you can feel their eyes boring right through your soul.  That very soul which you have taken great measures to protect and keep to yourself.  I thought that your post to ASD was a tremendous start.  I have found great power in the act of writing.  I don’t understand it myself, but this is the best outlet I have.  Somehow that needed distance is there, and it provides safety to me.  You could check and see if there is a therapist who would be willing to do some writing therapy with you.  My therapist of a few years back did, and after a time that made it easier (I said easier, not easy) to see her in her office.

        Out of time concerns, I have to delete more messages than I can read.  I just dip my hands into the stream of messages, scoop them into my cupped palms, and toss them into the air where they they break into a thousand droplets reflecting the glittering rays of the sun.  I read as many as I can before they fall back into the river trickling at my feet.

        I want your personal story about how the Internet has become a valuable source of information and/or support regarding your medical condition/disease.  The information will be used to help illustrate the Internet’s potential for those seeking information and/or support.  Please help others realize the value of the web as a communications tool by sharing your story.         It was a dark and stormy night.  A few of us emotionally unstable ASD’ers were sitting in a car, debating what to do with the woman we had just kidnapped.  Her muffled screams from the trunk were making it even harder than usual to concentrate.         It had all started when we got ONE MORE REQUEST to write somebody’s book/article/paper for them without compensation.  That "somebody" was now curled up in the fetal position, her head resting on the spare tire, nylon cord cutting into the flesh of her wrists & ankles.  The rain pounding on the car, the anxiety of the group, and the general lack of social skills all contributed to our irritable mood.         "Pass that Nutella" came a voice from the back seat.  "I vote for death by slow torture."  [continued?]

        I frequently post all sorts of total CRAP to this and other newsgroups.  It is literally effortless!!! An ASDer wrote something along the lines of the following:         Please indulge me one last time.  I think I may be close to completely losing it.  Right now I am doing all I can to stop myself from taking my own life.  It is hard enough for me to remain calm and write this message, let alone to get through another day constantly pretending and put up with day-to-day tasks.  This is not just me "ranting on as usual". Please don’t send me "you’re not thinking straight" type messages.  Don’t try to talk me out of this or help me get through it.  I won’t let my time be wasted by people’s well-intentioned but utterly futile attempts to "talk sense" to me.         I can’t talk any sense into you, or try to talk you into or out of anything.  I can’t even do that for myself.  You sound like you are in the same place I am.  Either time to get locked up, or time to check out. Believe me, I’m hangin’ by the same thin thread you are, and we both know there is nothing anybody here can really do about it.  We can give you hugs and sincerely mean it, we can tell you to hang on another day and sincerely mean it, we can tell you we care and sincerely mean it, we can even tell you to get to a doctor (yesterday) for the meds/treatment you need.  But, this is a support group.  It only SUPPORTS the efforts that you and I are able to make on our own.  I’m grateful for that support, cuz it’s all I have at the moment.  Nobody here can walk into your house, take your hand, and lead through each step of the day.  (GOD I WISH SOMEONE COULD.  FOR ME AND YOU BOTH!!!!)  You and I are kinda teetering on a brink.  It may be hospitalization for you, death for me.  I don’t know.  Maybe both of us are at our bottoms now.  Maybe hope will break through in some way tomorrow.  I don’t know.  All I know is that this is the most painful, most unbearable time I’ve ever experienced in my life, and I think it probably is for you too.  Is there any hope?  Some people here say there is, but my stubborn gut tells me that I have further to fall before I see it.  I don’t know why.  Maybe you’re not as stubborn as I am.  Maybe you can really scream out for help to the people and institutions and doctors and family and friends within your reach.  Or maybe you will be stubborn like me and dig in a little deeper.  I don’t know.  I think a lot about you.  Been reading your posts since day one.  What’re we gonna do?

        Hi, I need somewhere to open up.  I’ve been depressed for 5 years (I’m 20).  Next week will be my one year Prozac anniversary, and things were going fine.  Until now that is.  My ever-so-kind father has just come in and told me in no uncertain terms, that reading and writing about depression will only make matters worse.  Depression is there for everyone, but the better members of society manage to avoid it, whereas we weak-willed and stupid individuals are … read more »

Response:

Archive-name: alt-support-depression/An-ASD-Sampler/part3 Posting-Frequency: bi-weekly Last-modified: 1997/09/22    An alt.support.depression Sampler,  part 3 of 3

        It would be nice if someone would answer my cry for help. Sometimes (and I do understand) I feel this group is very self-centered.  I want to laugh and tell jokes and live a productive life, but sometimes it’s difficult and support is necessary.  I wrote a similar letter months ago with the same gripe and though people eventually came around I’m starting to think it’s me and not the group.  Maybe I’m venting too much.  After all, I do have a therapist to discuss these issues with.  It’s all right to tell me the truth, I’m not that fragile.  Maybe I need attention and it’s not fair to ask a group such as this to drop everything and say poor "poor Jim".         Welcome to ASD.  Maybe this will help, maybe not?!  Try to think of ASD as a large room.  A *very* large room, with over 500 people coming and going every day.  And every 3 seconds the door flies open and somebody walks in with a post like; "my wife is driving me crazy!" or "my effexor is pooping out again!" or "ya know, I REALLY hate myself today" or "Hi, I’m new here".         Because we’re human, we often respond most to the people we know. But new people might only get one or two people wandering by saying, "Hi, welcome to ASD.  Come on in and stay awhile."  Some newbies do come in and stay awhile.  They post frequently, tell us about themselves, talk to us, and we get to know them pretty quickly and support them, and they support us.  Other newbies come in once in a great while, and unfortunately, kind of STAY newbies.  Yes, they may recognize US because they’re standing outside watching thru the window (i.e., lurking), but since they only pop in the room every now and then, people haven’t gotten the chance to get to KNOW them, or even recognize them!  So the point of all this is, "I’m sorry, I don’t recognize your name, so I don’t recall seeing you here before.  Stay awhile.  Pull up a chair and let us get to know you.  I’m sorry you’re hurting.  We all are hurting, and we all are sorry, and we all care.  Welcome.

Mean                            33 Standard Deviation      11 Minimum                     15 Maximum                     67 Count                          149 Editors note:  This was just a summary snapshot in time of those who chose to respond with their ages.

        I’m so excited!!   I made it through this day, made it through the conflict with my ex with only a few brief thoughts of finding some way to end my miserable existence!!  O.K., I know that sounds kind of contradictory, but that’s the way I feel.  I just love this place!  (Of course, I’m really on a high right now, I’m sure I’ll be crashing soon. Things don’t go right very often without something bad slamming into me!!) The whole time I was with the ex, I kept thinking that I could always come back to my computer and RANT about my feelings.  That is what kept me from actually doing any self-destructive things.  Thank you all so much!!  Even though I still want to DIE and just get it over with, you guys pulled me through another day.  Now I’ll get to spend Mother’s Day listening to my parents gripe about how I never do anything right.  Oh, well.  I guess they’ll learn someday!!  Thanks again – I’m going to keep trying to hang on!!

        I’m new here (as you probably know).  Been reading your posts for a couple of weeks.  I think you people are the best (except the spammers and scammers).  Anyway, my name is Veronica, I’m 46, and I just wanted to say "HI".  When I get depressed it’s awful because nobody wants to listen to me.  It seems like I need the most love when I’m least lovable.  Seems like I can help others when they are feeling depressed, yet I cannot help myself.  Why is that?         Maybe because you can identify with the feelings of a depressed person.  That is good!  It’s not good that you are depressed.  But since you are, this facet of your being makes you a valuable person to someone else who is suffering.  Even when the depression has lifted, you will still have that keen sense of what a depressed person is feeling.  Here is a newsgroup full of people who can relate to just about anything you can throw out.  It’s the benefit of a community.  When there is no one in "real life" to talk to (probably the best thing is to do it in "real life", but that’s not always possible), you can always come here.

        OK, so this is your first visit to A.S.D.  Mine was just a few days ago, and it was made with a good deal of apprehension.  Allow me a moment to put your minds at ease.  I initially posted here simply to get some "stuff" out of my system, to unload, if you will.  I suppose I didn’t expect anything in return, other than the satisfaction of knowing that I had said what I wanted to say, and didn’t place a burden on my friends or family, many of whom just don’t care to listen (again).  The response from the people at ASD has really been overwhelming, and, well, touching. Seem’s that these folks CARE about you.  They offer advise from personal experiences. they give you hugs and they give you support.  At times, you even get a laugh thrown in for good measure.  There are also some pretty scary experiences shared here, but that’s part of recovery.  So, to those of you that are "veterans" of ASD, I wish you God Speed for healthy, happy lives.  For those of you just entering, don’t be timid, don’t be afraid. Say what you wanted to when you signed onto the group.  This group really cares.

        This is my first time posting, so please be patient.  (Actually, my first posting anywhere!)  I have suffered from severe depression for the last 20 years.  Other than the initial occurrence, the worst episode was from Fall 95 to Winter 97.  Starting to get better now, but "it" (depression/anxiety attacks/fatigue/ennui) still comes and goes.  "It" is the whole reason I wanted to get on the net.  There is no one whom I can talk to.  Friends/family/spouse are uncomfortable with the topic, or give me newspaper clippings or spiritual advice.  It all seems to come down to "put a smile on your face, tell yourself you’re happy, and you’ll believe it."  I think their main view of depression is that I not do anything that would make the neighbors talk – I don’t have to be happy, just act happy. So, is this the place where I can vent, wail, bitch, kvetch and kvell?  Is there another group that I should be using?  Am I doing this all wrong?  I know these question sound stupid or frivolous.  But I have tried posting here before when I was in the depths, and didn’t know how to post or respond, or the proper way to do it.  It’s hell going through 30 minutes of newbie fumbling to try to reach *anybody* just to find out nothing happened, and you don’t know how to make it work.  And I can’t ask my spouse to help me post to this site.  Just let me know if this is a safe place to come when the shit hits.  And if I promise not to blather anymore, can I respond to others when they feel crappy?  It helps.  The feeling of isolation is one of the worst parts of depression.  And the isolation just feeds the depression. if this is the right group:         If you’re depressed, then you’re in the right place.  Welcome to our humble abode.  There is no entrance exam, and there are no "correct" causative factors.  There is no required level of depression.  Once in you’re in the pit, it ceases to be relative and becomes relevant.

        What do you do when your pdoc says "you should be happy?"         First you look right at him with the Clint Eastwood squint (with a hint of Nicholson in "The Shining" thrown in) for several seconds.  Then say: "YOU…should be AFRAID….VERY afraid."  Wait a few seonds more, then as fast as you can, JUMP up out of your chair and LUNGE at him, waving your arms, holding your eyes open really wide, and yelling "BLEAGH!!" at the top of your voice.         Of course, this won’t really *accomplish* anything…but it’s a hell of a lot of fun!  Good luck!  Let me know how it works out for you.

        I just had somewhat of a revelation.  In therapy I was talking about how I’ve always envisioned myself as this romantic depressed character who broods alone, quietly, writing poetry, becoming one with the earth and the trees and the grass and the moon.  My therapist asked what it is about depression that I think is so romantic.  I talked about all the imagery that surrounds us in films and books and folklore, about these romantic brooding desperate woe-begone characters that has infiltrated my psyche.  But I just thought of something else.  It is so important for me to be good at things.  At school, at playing instruments, at knowing idle bits of information.  It has always been crucial that I excel, especially at school.  I have never been an athlete and have never had the best social skills, and have always been tremendously shy.  There are many things that I have wanted to be better at.  So I hold those things that I *am* good at very close to me.  They define me.  So, yes, my revelation.  Depression

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Response:

Archive-name: alt-support-depression/An-ASD-Sampler/part1 Posting-Frequency: bi-weekly Last-modified: 1998/1/27                An alt.support.depression Sampler Is this an "official" post of some kind??         No.  This is *not* an official post of alt.support.depression (ASD).  This post (in 3 parts) has been approved by the moderators of the *.answers usenet newsgroups.  Approval by the moderators of the *.answers newsgroups means that; (1) these posts can appear on ASD, news.answers, and alt.answers (2) these posts will be archived on the rtfm.mit.edu anonymous FTP server         (ftp://rtfm.mit.edu/pub/usenet-by-hierarchy/alt/support/depression/) (3) these posts can be "autoposted" using a FAQ server run by rtfm.mit.edu. Is this some kind of FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions)??         Over the 2 years that I have been reading alt.support.depression, there have been many discussions about what should or should not be posted, and about what this group is or is not.  On several occasions people have suggested that a FAQ be formulated to put down on paper (as it were) the expectations that members of this group have of each other.  I am sorry, and happy, to say that I have not been able to compile such a document.  If this is a FAQ, then it is a very unconventional FAQ.  Aside from the FAQ-style Questions and Answers here in the beginning of this post, that explain what this post is and is not, the rest of this post does not conform to the usual FAQ format. If this is not a FAQ, then what the heck is it??         This alt.support.depression Sampler is an attempt to collect some of the simple expressions of personal experience that make alt.support.depression (ASD) such an important place.  This Sampler cannot be all things to all people.  Most of the posts to ASD will never find their way into this Sampler simply because this is only a *very* small "sample" of what is posted to ASD, and because so much of ASD simply does not fit into this very limited and constrained format.  Anything less than the whole of every single post to ASD reflects the hand of whomever chooses to sift and winnow through the 300+ posts that find their way to ASD each day.  Thus this Sampler reveals as much about myself and my own personal values, as it does about ASD and the people who participate here.         Although I sometimes find life very painful, I personally do not really want to die.  But to leave ASD is to die here in metaphor.  So, when I leave ASD, I would like to leave behind a little bit of myself so that I might somehow live on.  I thought this list might be a good way to do that. Perhaps this Sampler can act as an "indirect FAQ by example" for ASD.  In a way, I guess this Sampler provides an indirect and rambling answer to the question "what is this newsgroup all about".  The real and complete answer to this question, however, cannot be contained in any summary, digest, or sampler.  The real answer to this question can only be found in the statement "this group is what we make it when we post to it".  The real answer to this question can only be found here on ASD each and every day. If I don’t have a post in this list, does it mean all of my posts are worthless??         No.  Absolutely not.  As I said above, this is only a *very* small sample of ASD, and most of ASD simply does not fit this format.  In addition, about 90% of the entries here were chosen by me.  So if your words are not found in this Sampler, then it likely means that *I* did not, for whatever random or twisted reasons, pick out something that you have said.  I really wish you would nominate something you said. If I don’t have a post in this list, does it mean that I am worthless??         No.  Absolutely not.  See the answer to the question above. Is this list static, or set in stone??         No.  It is my personal belief that this ASD Sampler is only useful if it continues to be updated by those who read ASD.  Not only is the content of this list modified by what people say on ASD, but even the very name of this list has been modified based on feedback from readers.  If you have read or said something that you think should be included here then not the person who posted what you submitted to me, then I will try to contact the original "owner" of the post and ask them if they mind that we include their words in this list. Where can I find a "real" FAQ for ASD??         There are other informal FAQ-style posts that appear on ASD from time to time.  However, the only FAQ-style post that is currently approved by the moderators of *.answers for posting on ASD is the "alt.support.depression FAQ" (in 5 parts).  This FAQ is very informative with respect to depression, but it contains relatively little information related specifically to ASD.  For more information related specifically to ASD, you should check out http://www.lava.net/~dewilson/asd/resources.html as a resource. 2, 4, 6, 8, who do we appreciate??         If it is not obvious, I want to thank all of those who have consented to have their words placed here.  In addition, I want to thank in advance anyone who responds and gives me feedback of any kind.  If you find anything on this list that you do not like for any reason, please let me know. So where is this ASD Sampler already??         It starts right below.  It is in three parts, with the oldest quotes first and more recent quotes at the end of the third part.    An alt.support.depression Sampler,  part 1 of 3

        Like my ideas, feelings, opinions, and actions are somehow invalid or otherwise compromised because I was in the loony bin, or because I have faulty brain chemistry and an American Tourister showroom full of baggage.

Subject line: A message from your mother         It’s a lovely day outside!!  Would you PLEASE stop spending so much time at that computer.  Why don’t you at least take a little walk, get some fresh air?  A little physical activity wouldn’t hurt you.  Don’t forget to wear your jacket!!         Cindi pulling on her flame retardant leather undies.

        Ever been told you’re "overqualified" for the position available? Now what the fuck is that supposed to mean, and what can you possibly say in return?  "Oh, don’t worry, I’m much dumber than my resume makes me out to be?"

        Today I feel ill, dizzy, and weak, my guts in turmoil.  And while I’m reasonably certain this is so, I wonder if my head has directed my body to misbehave.  There is plenty to be angry about these days and I cannot be sure if it is swallowed food or swallowed anger that has made me ill.

        Over and over again the Bible says, "Believe in God, and you will see good things happen."  The Bible has it completely backwards, I think. A true profession of faith is, instead, "See good things in what happens, and you will believe in God!"  Religious beliefs ask us to celebrate the good things in life.  To seek them out, and enjoy what pleasures we can while we are alive.  Thus, the proper prayer of thanksgiving is not, "Thank you God, for all of the great things in my life", but rather, "Thank you, God, for giving me the ability to enjoy what pleasures there are in my life!"         If someone says "I think shock therapy is so great that everyone should try it", and you don’t agree, the proper response ought to be; "Many people have had a bad experience with shock treatment and it is not for everyone".  One should NOT say;  "You are obviously the product of 200 years of inbreeding, and you are a moronic insensitive clod who should take your asinine opinions elsewhere".

        I will send you directions on how to assemble these lights along with a materials list and directions for use.  I am a Clinical Psychologist with 10 years experience treating SAD (Seasonal Affective Disorder).  Send $5.00 along with a stamped, self addressed envelope to….         Of course, you COULD just post that info here on ASD and let everybody have it for free, but I guess that wouldn’t be the American way, would it?   <sigh signature file:         The opinions given above may be mine.  They might also just be what I feel like saying right now, okay? support groups:         Available for your inspection.  A medical emergency I.D. card that could save your life.  For complete information go to . . . (www-site-deleted).         I want a card that says  "No, I really mean it this time.  Please leave me alone." reduced expectations":         Life is good.  My toilet hasn’t overflowed once today.

        Am I asking for suggestions or advice?  I suppose.  Whatever I get will be stored away in my mailbox for those furtive moments when I have the energy to read and respond to them.  Mostly, I am just glad for a newsgroup where I can beak off and blurb it all out and that’s okay.

        I managed to crawl out of the lowest level of hell, step-by-step, stair-by-stair, memorizing each mural on the wall of each level of Hell.  I finally made it out.  But describe to me the picture that you see and I will tell … read more »

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Archive-name: alt-support-depression/An-ASD-Sampler/part3 Posting-Frequency: bi-weekly Last-modified: 1998/1/27    An alt.support.depression Sampler,  part 3 of 3         I am not saying this to offend people, but this group is just a bit ridiculous.  I looked into it because of my depression and to get support. But to see topics about male anatomy, daylight savings, etc is very disappointing.  Depression is a serious problem that shouldn’t be taken lightly or insulted with unrelated or improper topics.  Again, this is not to tick anyone off, its just my feelings on this group.         Yes, some of the responses may have seemed a little harsh to you. But please understand.  To many of us, it seemed as though you waltzed in here and said "my goodness, obviously you people are just a bunch of blithering idiots who don’t treat their illness seriously".  We do.  We have to live with it.  But I don’t think I could hang around if it were ALL serious discussions.  We DO have plenty of serious support, discussion, and information.  When you get to know us better you’ll be able to pick it out easier.  Welcome.

        In its broadest sense, codependency can be defined as an addiction to people, behaviors, or things.  Codependency is the fallacy of trying to control interior feelings by controlling people, things, and events on the outside.  To the codependent, control or the lack of it is central to every aspect of life.  ….  Codependents can be like vacuum cleaners gone wild, drawing to themselves not just another person, but also chemicals (alcohol or drugs, primarily) or things — money, food, sexuality, work.  They struggle relentlessly to fill the great emotional vacuum within themselves. ….  "There is something missing inside me."  (From the book "Love is a Choice" by Drs. Robert Hemfelt, Frank Minirth and Paul Meier.)         Editors note:  Ok, so this wasn’t an "original" quote.  *I* liked it anyway, and *I* get to chose what goes in this list.  You think this is easy, then *you* make a list like this  …..  *sigh*  …..  sorry.  I guess I am feeling a little frustrated today.

        I read postings that are crying out for help….and I want to help…but I don’t answer because I fear making things worse.  I wonder if anyone else feels this way?         Some depressed people will go to great lengths to get people to hate them in order to have the views they hold of their own self mirrored in the views they see that others hold of that self.  It’s like they want their negative self-image supported.  I think that’s what’s happening here. He’s trying to get people on ASD to have the same view of himself as he does.  It seems to me that when regular members of ASD suddenly appear to become angry trolls, they only do it for awhile.  It sometimes happens when they’re in an active crash – one where they have the energy to do things. So it can be a particularly dangerous time of short duration.  Maybe we could put up with this one for awhile.  Gives us a chance to break through the fog.

        I am becoming so frustrated by my reluctance to be more open, to ask for what I need.  I have all of the "avoidant personality" traits that someone else here wrote about recently.  It even affects me here.  Yet, something in me longs to be different, so I remain here, making oh-so-feeble attempts at interacting with others.  I’m struggling right now…..so much I want to express, but  here I sit, immobilized……         Someone recently spoke to me of taking "baby steps".  I guess I’ll just send this off, and consider it a baby step, while promising myself to try again later.  mourning dove (in the pit, trying to give herself permission to ask for support)

        I’m scared of ASD even when you are welcoming.  I’m scared of you when you are joking.  I’m intimidated by your sigs.  I’m scared of your history.  I’m scared of your strength when you "out" yourself here; make yourself vulnerable.  I’m scared of your strength to live through what all of you have lived through.  I’m scared of the energized power you maintain even as you work like a wave: like a sound wave with your general ups and your general downs.  I’m scared of your power to complement one another through your individual waves: your ability to come to the aid of those who are down when you are up.         For 2 months I’ve lurked now, and I’m still scared to post but I need to.  I’m scared like all delurkers to bring my guard down and become RAW.  I’m scared of being ignored and I’m scared of being picked apart and I’m scared of being misunderstood here -even here- where right now I’m putting myself out there to finally be understood by *you*, because no one else can and if *you* can’t, then I’m scared no one can.         I’m scared because my past upsets me as does my future although I can find no reason for either.  I’m scared because I feel that my everyday actions are not me.  I take the GREs in 3 days and I can’t even concentrate on finishing this sentence.  I’m scared of so much deep inside but right now I’m trying to focus on accomplishing this *one thing* and I’m failing at it.  Is it possible to feel a need for a faceless entity that has unknowingly shown its soul to you?  Do you realize your power?  Do *you* know that by just connecting to one phrase that is spoken by *you*, I cry? I am raw now.         What a great post.  I was so scared of posting that it took me literally years.  At some point the need to connect overcame the fear, but I’m still scared every time I send something.  I worry about being stupid, boring, irrelevant.  That my writing is stiff and charmless.  Those are the same fears that I have in my real life interactions, you know, always thinking about if I said the right thing, revisiting conversations and thinking about what I should have said differently, never totally certain if people really like me, or if they just tolerate me, etc.  But, I’m glad I started posting, it has really helped.  I don’t quite feel at home yet, but I’m really glad to have dared to delurk.  Welcome, and I hope you keep writing.         I was once standing where you are now.  Right on the edge.  I lurked for 2 or 3 days and then I just jumped in, because if I hadn’t, I would have died.  I jumped without knowing if anyone would catch me.  But they did.  And my life will never be the same.  Here, jump right here and I will catch you in my scarred, battle weary arms.  You are truly among friends here.  I loved your post.  You are very brave.

        I know I’m a very needy person and I know this is going to seem like whining, but oh please, please, if you could just write me and tell me I should hang on, I would so appreciate it.  I’m afraid to get offline, I’m afraid to leave this room, I’m afraid to quit writing.  So please, if you could just spare a word or two, it would help, I know it would.  I’m praying it will, because this hurts so bad.  I’ll just stay online and write till I feel better.

        My psych suggested that I read a book called "Learned Optimism" between now and next week’s appointment.  I don’t know what to make of this "positive thinking" stuff.  I appreciate that thinking "I’m a failure" doesn’t help matters (although I’ve not managed to stop thinking that yet), but I don’t think that I’d suddenly switch into a positive world view if I started thinking "I’m an interesting and worthwhile human being".  My SO, who has otherwise impeccable taste, keeps telling me that and I don’t believe her, so I can’t imagine that I’m going to listen to someone like myself who is so consistently wrong about things.

        Time to quit lurking and say Hello.  I’ve learned to know and love most of you.  I’ve watched you care for each other, support each other, perhaps even save each other’s lives.  I’ve watched in disbelief as you grabbed at troll bait and then wondered why the barbed hook hurt so much. I’ve seen love, frustration, and anger.  Also awe, confusion, humility, and openhearted joy.  You are a light in my life.

        How much of what is inside gets lost in the translation from me to you?  How much do words confine, limit, express?  Am I OK?  No, but I play the game well.  Lately, I’ve been slipping more often than not.  I’m scared to death of getting older, growing colder, and adopting meaningless distractions.  What happens when I can no longer reach inside and pull out another reason to endure?  Is there release or merely compromise?  I’d like to think that I didn’t have to take pills to be all right.  They make you think that you thought your way into this so now it is up to you to think your way out.  But it’s not about thinking.  It is about being lost in the darkness, becoming the darkness, and therefore you are unable to decipher the darkness that envelops you.  Please keep the steady hum of your words moving around me because the silence threatens to overwhelm me.

        I’ve been debating about trying to become a part of this group again.  I was here, briefly, last spring, but didn’t seem to get much response so I returned to lurk-mode.  In some ways, I desperately want to belong to this group, because you all are a great group of people, and this is a wonderful resource.  What concerns me about being a part of this group is what I term a … read more »

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bravo, bravo!  i feel like giving asd a standing ovation.  i want to clap my hands like a freak.  god that was better than titanic.  it was epic. asd should be a novel and then a movie.  wonderful, wonderful, wonderful! i’m prancing around doing ballet-like leaps (at least that’s what i picture)! rah!rah!rah!  i don’t want this appreciation to end.  everything else has fallen apart and here i find myself in this extraordinarily beautiful and raw place in the world.  i want to nuzzle in the breasts of asd!  i want to be the kiss fairy and visit everyone in their sleep bestowing upon them my greatest gratitude!  oh the wind that swept me through those posts sweep me further along this joyous path!  ryan

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Who am I to argue with exuberance?  I’m the third window on the right. I’ll leave the curtains open. We all knew that. We’ve been peeking in your window for months now. Could you please move that stack of clothes by the bed, it’s blocking our view.

If those are clothes, how come they’re moving? (How long does it take a pile of laundry to develop into new life-forms?) —          The opinions given above may be mine. They might also            just be what I feel like saying right now, okay?

Response:

i want to nuzzle in the breasts of asd!  

Not unless you take us somewhere nice for dinner first!  What kinda group you think we are? i want to be the kiss fairy and visit everyone in their sleep bestowing upon them my greatest gratitude!

Who am I to argue with exuberance?  I’m the third window on the right. I’ll leave the curtains open. cp — **  Baywatch Barbie and her pet dolphin do not move by themselves  ** *    yet MORE new pages!    http://www.mindspring.com/~capadgett    * *       Homo sum:  humani nihil a me alienum puto.   (terence)      *

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bravo, bravo!  i feel like giving asd a standing ovation.  i want to clap my hands like a freak.  god that was better than titanic.  it was epic. asd should be a novel and then a movie.  wonderful, wonderful, wonderful! i’m prancing around doing ballet-like leaps (at least that’s what i picture)! rah!rah!rah!  i don’t want this appreciation to end.  everything else has fallen apart and here i find myself in this extraordinarily beautiful and raw place in the world.  i want to nuzzle in the breasts of asd!  i want to be the kiss fairy and visit everyone in their sleep bestowing upon them my greatest gratitude!  oh the wind that swept me through those posts sweep me further along this joyous path!  ryan

WOW, that was great.  It made my day.  Maybe my whole week.  I am going to save a copy of it.  I mean I know that I didn’t write all the posts in the Sampler, and I know that the *real* credit goes to EVERYONE who posts to this group, but I appreciate it when other’s appreciate the Sampler.  Hey, what can I say, I’m co-dependent!!!  :-) Sincerely Stewart — The Metaphor Man  *and*  The Great Defender of the Self

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – i want to nuzzle in the breasts of asd! Not unless you take us somewhere nice for dinner first!  What kinda group you think we are? i want to be the kiss fairy and visit everyone in their sleep bestowing upon them my greatest gratitude! Who am I to argue with exuberance?  I’m the third window on the right. I’ll leave the curtains open. cp

aaahhh!  i’m laughing my sack of guilt ass off!  makes me wanna do aerobics or something!  just maybe frolic around in striped tights and fruity colours! i’ll need a crystal baton too. ryan

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – x-no-archive: yes Bluebird, overlooked as usual Bluebird, I don’t understand this.   Many times now I’ve seen you say this, that you’re overlooked as usual, and yet, you get a great amount of attention in this newsgroup.  People respond to you all the time.  Why do you feel overlooked? Don’t assume she actually feels overlooked.  This is just a great hook to add at the end of a message, it makes people come forward and effuse about how wonderful and beautiful she is and how they would NEVER overlook her. I actually do the same thing a lot, except I’ll say, "Oh, but you don’t care, you didn’t even read it."  And a few good people will reply, saying "I care, and I did read this".  And then I feel sleazy for having manipulated them.

Thank you for sharing that. But, Stewart, Mark is right.  I don’t really feel overlooked, but I *am* a little pissed off that the contribution I sent you last summer still hasn’t made it into your Sampler.  In that sense *only*, I have been overlooked *by you only*, Stewart. And, as I said in e-mail earlier, I’ve written a lot of good stuff since then that might fit into your Sampler even better.  I just want to be recognized as a good writer, that’s all.  <manipulative catch in throat Bluebird (seen through again)

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says… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ll save my applause for when I finally make your goddam Sampler Bluebird, overlooked as usual Talk about co-dependent!!!   How’s about you or someone else submits a post of yours for inclusion in the Sampler??  I read most of your posts, and I like most of them.  I wonder if your posts are often part of larger threads, and so don’t "stand alone" when separated from the ebb and flow of the whole group?? I don’t know, happy to talk about it with you…… You are certainly not overlooked in *my* eyes, for whatever that is worth…… Sincerely Stewart

Stewart, *I* submitted one of my posts to you when you first did this sampler. I can probably even find the e-mails on the subject; I’m a pack rat, and I’ve probably got it backed up onto a disk somewhere. Fortunately, I stopped holding my breath waiting for you to use it.  Instead, I put some of my better posts up on my website. Bluebird

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But, Stewart, Mark is right.  I don’t really feel overlooked, but I *am* a little pissed off that the contribution I sent you last summer still hasn’t made it into your Sampler.  In that sense *only*, I have been overlooked *by you only*, Stewart. And, as I said in e-mail earlier, I’ve written a lot of good stuff since then that might fit into your Sampler even better.  I just want to be recognized as a good writer, that’s all.  <manipulative catch in throat Bluebird (seen through again)

Do you recognize yourself as a good writer??  Do you value yourself?? Take a breath. I could ask it another way.   If you had your favorite and ‘most meaningful to you’ quote in the Sampler, how long do you think the feeling of being a good writer would last??  How long would your feeling of being of value, in the eyes of others and in your own eyes, last?? Take a breath. I think we all want to see ourselves reflected in the eyes of others in a way that feels good/right to us.  Be it validation of our own negative self-image, or validation of our own positive self-image.  Whatever feels right in terms of being needed at the moment is what we look for.  But I think "to the extent that" it is a need which surpasses one’s own self-determined self value, is "the extent to which" it is codependent in a way that will never really satisfy the need.  I think I just had a fancy way of saying that IMHO if you don’t value yourself as a writer, then your inclusion in the Sampler may make you feel good for a while, but this feeling will ultimately wear off because the FUNDAMENTAL value is missing and cannot be supplied from outside. As a step back in this recursive mirror, I am learning how to see and value my own co-dependent nature.  In this way, as in finding meaning and value in being ill or depressed, I am finding an inner satisfaction that is not quite so dependent on external people/things. I think my e-mail response to you was better than this post, and I am not sure this post makes much sense standing alone without the e-mail that I just sent you.   Sincerely Stewart PS.  As an aside, I really think there was something interesting about this idea that we are most vulnerable where we are most co-dependent.  I think it makes sense if you presume that we are most capable and strongest where we are ourselves and where we stand on our own feet.  But we are weekest and most vulnerable where we fill inner needs through using our external environment.  Sometimes it is only through some traumatic event, some loss of something external, a death, loss of love, lost job, loss of physical or emotional health, that we find just how "co-dependent" we have been on that thing…just how vulnerable we are.  We are alive, we are co-dependent. Damn I like thinking these things out here….thanks.  And you wonder about your value as a write…..yeesh.  In a *totally* co-dependent perspective, "the extent that" what you write resonates with me and causes me to write is "the extent to which" you are a good writer – at least to me.    :-) — The Metaphor Man  *and*  The Great Defender of the Self

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says… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Do you recognize yourself as a good writer??  Do you value yourself?? Take a breath. I could ask it another way.   If you had your favorite and ‘most meaningful to you’ quote in the Sampler, how long do you think the feeling of being a good writer would last??  How long would your feeling of being of value, in the eyes of others and in your own eyes, last?? Take a breath. [snip] Damn I like thinking these things out here….thanks.  And you wonder about your value as a write…..yeesh.  In a *totally* co-dependent perspective, "the extent that" what you write resonates with me and causes me to write is "the extent to which" you are a good writer – at least to me.    :-)

Okay, first things first.  Do I recognize myself as a good writer?  Yes, I do. But I don’t have a lot of confidence in my opinions.  Other people in RL have told me I’m a good writer, and that helps a little.  It’s a *huge* failing of mine that I need other people to tell me something about myself, and tell it to me often, before I’ll believe it. Second part:  If my favorite, most meaningful quote (or, for that matter, quotes, since I couldn’t pick just one) were in your Sampler, I’d feel good about it for as long as it remained in your Sampler.  Every time that document reappeared on my newsreader, I could smile in the confidence that yes, I was still represented in there.  All those newbies who are reading it for the first time would see that Bluebird’s thoughts are worth remembering, they’re "keepers". And as for your last paragraph:  I really liked that.  If what I write resonates with *anybody*, then I’ve done my job.  I’m a good writer.  When I put that Lenten meditation on my webpage, Patricia told me: "It is not how I feel, but you made me experience your feelings for a moment."  That’s what I was trying to do when I wrote it, and I succeeded, and that’s what makes me a good writer. Co-dependent, maybe, but good nonetheless. Bluebird

Response:

Archive-name: alt-support-depression/An-ASD-Sampler/part2 Posting-Frequency: bi-weekly Last-modified: 1998/1/27    An alt.support.depression Sampler,  part 2 of 3

        Everything I say is so stupid, trite, and unhelpful.  All I can do is say; "sorry you feel that way, here’s some hugs".  Hugs are good, Karent The Hugmaster knows that, but it’s just so little, so stupid.  I’m sorry here.  I’m going to act like a child & whine; Do my posts make ANYBODY feel any better?  Or should I just be quiet?  I’m feeling really down and tense. Hubby is away for the week at a convention – every day I’m slipping lower and lower.  Actually in a way it’s kinda nice him not being here – one less body bugging me, but I’m lonely.  SEE!  I can’t be happy either way!  When he’s here I get annoyed with him for not just letting me vege, but when he’s not here I get lonely and slip down.  I hate this shit.  I hate my life.  Sometimes I even hate this stupid newsgroup – takes up so much of my time.  Sorry for all the ranting and whining

        This is my first post after some time of just lurking and trying to figure out this newsgroup.  Can’t really say I have succeeded in the latter yet.  What I am wondering is this:  where does one find support?  After years of appearing normal while dying inside I have a circle of friends and relatives and coworkers who do not know that I am depressed.  I have kept up appearances for work and family.  But now I am tired, I am lonely, and I wish I had somebody to just share with, someone who understands but doesn’t think he has to fix things.         Here is a scripture that may benefit you as it has me:  "Have not I commanded thee?  Be strong and of good courage.  Be not afraid, neither be thou dismayed.  For the LORD thy God is with thee whithersoever thou goest."  (King James Version, Joshua 1:9)         I actually do believe that God has helped me in my life.  But for those of us with a chemical depression requiring medication, our belief in God is simply not enough.  We have an illness, NOT necessarily a lack of faith.

        Does anyone else feel like slapping a therapist who says;  "and how do you *feel* about that?"         There can only be so many polite variations of;  "Will you stop blathering on and on about all this tosh as though it mattered!  We are here to talk about your feelings, moods, and emotions.  It’s your reactions to this stuff that I need, not who did what to whom and with which garden implement.  If you don’t tell me what’s going on inside you, then I’ll have to poke you in the squidgy bits with a cattle prod every so often. <BbzZzt!".         I suspect they learn not to use *that* approach too often.

        Hi, I’m new here.  Ummm, I get depressed sometimes.  I’m in high school.  I love reading all your posts.  Guess I read too many of them. Really gotta go.  I’ll talk more tomorrow. river rat responded with:         Welcome Sara.  I’m new here too.  Keep posting and let us know if you’re okay.  I had my first depressive episode at age 15 in the 10th grade, but nobody knew what was going on.  If you stay down for more than a couple of weeks at a time, maybe you should talk to somebody who has good information and who can help.  You know, I think I read too many of these ASD posts too.         I would like to express my deepest and most grateful thanks to ASD. I had intended to write to each of you personally.  However, in another stunning display of catatonic tapioca brain, I managed to delete my entire list of messages.

        I am befuddled as to how everyone discusses their depression on the Internet.  How do you go to or begin counseling when you are uncomfortable talking about anything pertaining to yourself, especially your depression? Everything is so complicated.         I can relate to that uncanny fear of trying to speak of feelings to someone who is right there physically, looking at you.  If you are like me you can feel their eyes boring right through your soul.  That very soul which you have taken great measures to protect and keep to yourself.  I thought that your post to ASD was a tremendous start.  I have found great power in the act of writing.  I don’t understand it myself, but this is the best outlet I have.  Somehow that needed distance is there, and it provides safety to me.  You could check and see if there is a therapist who would be willing to do some writing therapy with you.  My therapist of a few years back did, and after a time that made it easier (I said easier, not easy) to see her in her office.

        Out of time concerns, I have to delete more messages than I can read.  I just dip my hands into the stream of messages, scoop them into my cupped palms, and toss them into the air where they they break into a thousand droplets reflecting the glittering rays of the sun.  I read as many as I can before they fall back into the river trickling at my feet.

        I want your personal story about how the Internet has become a valuable source of information and/or support regarding your medical condition/disease.  The information will be used to help illustrate the Internet’s potential for those seeking information and/or support.  Please help others realize the value of the web as a communications tool by sharing your story.         It was a dark and stormy night.  A few of us emotionally unstable ASD’ers were sitting in a car, debating what to do with the woman we had just kidnapped.  Her muffled screams from the trunk were making it even harder than usual to concentrate.         It had all started when we got ONE MORE REQUEST to write somebody’s book/article/paper for them without compensation.  That "somebody" was now curled up in the fetal position, her head resting on the spare tire, nylon cord cutting into the flesh of her wrists & ankles.  The rain pounding on the car, the anxiety of the group, and the general lack of social skills all contributed to our irritable mood.         "Pass that Nutella" came a voice from the back seat.  "I vote for death by slow torture."  [continued?]

        I frequently post all sorts of total CRAP to this and other newsgroups.  It is literally effortless!!! An ASDer wrote something along the lines of the following:         Please indulge me one last time.  I think I may be close to completely losing it.  Right now I am doing all I can to stop myself from taking my own life.  It is hard enough for me to remain calm and write this message, let alone to get through another day constantly pretending and put up with day-to-day tasks.  This is not just me "ranting on as usual". Please don’t send me "you’re not thinking straight" type messages.  Don’t try to talk me out of this or help me get through it.  I won’t let my time be wasted by people’s well-intentioned but utterly futile attempts to "talk sense" to me.         I can’t talk any sense into you, or try to talk you into or out of anything.  I can’t even do that for myself.  You sound like you are in the same place I am.  Either time to get locked up, or time to check out. Believe me, I’m hangin’ by the same thin thread you are, and we both know there is nothing anybody here can really do about it.  We can give you hugs and sincerely mean it, we can tell you to hang on another day and sincerely mean it, we can tell you we care and sincerely mean it, we can even tell you to get to a doctor (yesterday) for the meds/treatment you need.  But, this is a support group.  It only SUPPORTS the efforts that you and I are able to make on our own.  I’m grateful for that support, cuz it’s all I have at the moment.  Nobody here can walk into your house, take your hand, and lead through each step of the day.  (GOD I WISH SOMEONE COULD.  FOR ME AND YOU BOTH!!!!)  You and I are kinda teetering on a brink.  It may be hospitalization for you, death for me.  I don’t know.  Maybe both of us are at our bottoms now.  Maybe hope will break through in some way tomorrow.  I don’t know.  All I know is that this is the most painful, most unbearable time I’ve ever experienced in my life, and I think it probably is for you too.  Is there any hope?  Some people here say there is, but my stubborn gut tells me that I have further to fall before I see it.  I don’t know why.  Maybe you’re not as stubborn as I am.  Maybe you can really scream out for help to the people and institutions and doctors and family and friends within your reach.  Or maybe you will be stubborn like me and dig in a little deeper.  I don’t know.  I think a lot about you.  Been reading your posts since day one.  What’re we gonna do?

        Hi, I need somewhere to open up.  I’ve been depressed for 5 years (I’m 20).  Next week will be my one year Prozac anniversary, and things were going fine.  Until now that is.  My ever-so-kind father has just come in and told me in no uncertain terms, that reading and writing about depression will only make matters worse.  Depression is there for everyone, but the better members of society manage to avoid it, whereas we weak-willed and stupid individuals are just too self centered.  We enjoy wallowing in our sorrows and being "different".  It makes us feel important.  "Depression’s like hayfever" you just

… read more »

Response:

says… WOW, that was great.  It made my day.  Maybe my whole week.  I am going to save a copy of it.  I mean I know that I didn’t write all the posts in the Sampler, and I know that the *real* credit goes to EVERYONE who posts to this group, but I appreciate it when other’s appreciate the Sampler.  Hey, what can I say, I’m co-dependent!!!  :-) Sincerely Stewart

I’ll save my applause for when I finally make your goddam Sampler Bluebird, overlooked as usual

Response:

I’ll save my applause for when I finally make your goddam Sampler Bluebird, overlooked as usual

Talk about co-dependent!!!   How’s about you or someone else submits a post of yours for inclusion in the Sampler??  I read most of your posts, and I like most of them.  I wonder if your posts are often part of larger threads, and so don’t "stand alone" when separated from the ebb and flow of the whole group?? I don’t know, happy to talk about it with you…… You are certainly not overlooked in *my* eyes, for whatever that is worth…… Sincerely Stewart — The Metaphor Man  *and*  The Great Defender of the Self

Response:

Bluebird said: But, Stewart, Mark is right.  I don’t really feel overlooked, but I *am* a Jeez, Bluebird.  You talked to both Stewart and Mark about my question, and totally ignored me.  Now *I* feel overlooked!  How rude! — Bunny

You mean this one? Bluebird, I don’t understand this.   Many times now I’ve seen you say this, that you’re overlooked as usual, and yet, you get a great amount of attention in this newsgroup.  People respond to you all the time.  Why do you feel overlooked?

As you see from my answers to Stewart and Mark, I was just trying to get Stewart’s attention with that remark . But, in RL, I felt overlooked for most of my life.  I felt invisible, as if I could enter a room and never leave a ripple.  I was considered too fat and ugly to ever attract a man, and I was "too needy" to have friends.  Only in the last couple of years, since I began meds for depression, have I finally come forward out of the shadows, and I can thank ASD for a lot of that courage. Okay, Bunny?  I didn’t mean to overlook you. Bluebird

Response:

You mean this one? As you see from my answers to Stewart and Mark, I was just trying to get Stewart’s attention with that remark .

Bluebird, I was kidding!   But, in RL, I felt overlooked for most of my life.  I felt invisible, as if I could enter a room and never leave a ripple.  I was considered too fat and ugly to ever attract a man, and I was "too needy" to have friends.  Only in the last couple of years, since I began meds for depression, have I finally come forward out of the shadows, and I can thank ASD for a lot of that courage.

The early programming we get can be so powerful.  We absorb it and then perpetuate it, nurture it, live out the script we were handed.  Sometimes we realize early on we can just put the script down and write our own, and sometimes we keep reading it and reading it and reading it, enacting scenes, enacting a life, that some other writer wrote for us.  And then we wake up and realize what we’ve been doing, how we’ve embraced and chosen to enact a script that no one had the power to make us enact for so long, and we wonder why we did it, why we chose this when no one has been making us for years and years and years.  Why did we decide to give that power away, why make others so powerful, when they don’t even want that power to decide for us anyway.   My mother visited me many years ago, and we drove to the old neighbourhood.  We went to the house I grew up in.  My mother is a charming woman, and I am her charming daughter, and the postman was there and he remembered us, charming, they always remember us, and he went to the door of our house where other people had lived for many years now.  He introduced us, and they gave us a tour of the house. It was so very odd.  They had redecorated and remodeled extensively.  On the outside, the house looked the same.  Inside, it was completely different.  The kitchen where my parents sat and argued and got drunk and my stepfather was nasty and my mother cried, it was all different.  It didn’t exist any more.  That past, gone.  Downstairs.  My room wasn’t there any more.  The nightmare setting for so many outrages, the place where I would hide and my stepfather would come to my room, drunk, and berate me and hurt me, the room where I would lay quietly crying afterwards, and my mother would come downstairs, drunk (she doesn’t remember any of this now), and she would come to my room and cry and say I’m sorry, I’m sorry, I can’t do anything about it, and then go back upstairs and be with him and I would accept that, never thinking that she *could* protect me if she wanted to…gone.  These places did not exist.  They ceased to exist thousands of heartbeats ago, thousands, and it was a powerful gestalt: these things existed only in my mind now.  They were alive only in me.  They had no more power; I could never be returned to that place that no longer existed. They did not exist independent of my internal process that kept it alive. In India, they used to train elephants by chaining their legs with strong metal chains.  Later, they replaced the chain of metal with a chain of woven straw.  You can place a chicken in a small cage and keep it there for a long time.  You can take the cage away, and the chicken will sit there, unfettered, still unmoving from that spot.  Fly, chicken, break free and run, elephant, run and fly, be chicken and elephant as you were born to be.  Chains of straw, cages of air, and why did we believe the lie for so long? Okay, Bunny?  I didn’t mean to overlook you.

I knew that, I was just teasing you.   — Bunny

Response:

Okay, first things first.  Do I recognize myself as a good writer?  Yes, I do. But I don’t have a lot of confidence in my opinions.  Other people in RL have told me I’m a good writer, and that helps a little.  It’s a *huge* failing of mine that I need other people to tell me something about myself, and tell it to me often, before I’ll believe it.

   I don’t know.  I don’t think it is necessarily a failing at all.  It’s just that what I heard you say here is something like; people have told you that you are a good writer but you still don’t believe it.  How many times would they have to tell you??  What if some really famous writers told you??  I just don’t get the picture from this that you would believe it.  I’m sorry.  I am probably being an ass hole.  But I just don’t get the sense that it would fill that void inside of you.  Maybe I am just ranting on about the void inside of myself. Second part:  If my favorite, most meaningful quote (or, for that matter, quotes, since I couldn’t pick just one) were in your Sampler, I’d feel good about it for as long as it remained in your Sampler.  Every time that document reappeared on my newsreader, I could smile in the confidence that yes, I was still represented in there.  All those newbies who are reading it for the first time would see that Bluebird’s thoughts are worth remembering, they’re "keepers".

   Yeah, I know that feeling.  You described it for me in your e-mail when you suggested how good I feel when the stupid fucking Sampler gets autoposted to ASD every two weeks.  I feel good.  It’s other people’s words, but it is kind like my baby.  My efforts to put it together, get it into the *.answers newsgroups etcetera.  But I don’t think it will be autoposted to ASD forever.  What will we both do when it is no longer here?? And as for your last paragraph:  I really liked that.  If what I write resonates with *anybody*, then I’ve done my job.  I’m a good writer.  When I put that Lenten meditation on my webpage, Patricia told me: "It is not how I feel, but you made me experience your feelings for a moment."  That’s what I was trying to do when I wrote it, and I succeeded, and that’s what makes me a good writer. Co-dependent, maybe, but good nonetheless.

   Good??  Good??  We don’t need no stink’n "good" here.  You write damn well.  Better than simply "good".  I think I respond to a lot of your posts don’t I??  Well I read a lot of them anyway.  I think most times I feel like a tuning fork around you.  You bang yourself on the head, write some shit on your computer, and send it into ASD.  Then I read it and start to vibrate….. Sincerely Stewart — The Metaphor Man  *and*  The Great Defender of the Self

Response:

says…   I don’t know.  I don’t think it is necessarily a failing at all.  It’s just that what I heard you say here is something like; people have told you that you are a good writer but you still don’t believe it.  How many times would they have to tell you??  What if some really famous writers told you??  I just don’t get the picture from this that you would believe it.  I’m sorry.  I am probably being an ass hole.  But I just don’t get the sense that it would fill that void inside of you.  Maybe I am just ranting on about the void inside of myself.

I suspect you *are* ranting about the void in yourself more than a void you assume is in me.  Once I am selling my writing, I suspect that some of the worry about how good I am will dissipate.  Right now, I’m still trying to get together enough good samples to send out, so that I can *begin* to sell my writing.  This is the career I *really* want at this point. As far as being an asshole, well, Stewart, you *can* be an asshole (who can’t?), but I don’t think you’re being one here. [snipped my post] But I don’t think [the sampler] will be autoposted to ASD forever.  What will we both do when it is no longer here??

I can’t answer for you.  For me, I hope to be established as a writer by then, or else established in a career that satisfies me the way writing does.  By then, I won’t need the feedback as much.  Who knows, I might not even need ASD as much by then. [quoting me] And as for your last paragraph:  I really liked that.  If what I write resonates with *anybody*, then I’ve done my job.  I’m a good writer.  When I put that Lenten meditation on my webpage, Patricia told me: "It is not how I feel, but you made me experience your feelings for a moment."  That’s what I was trying to do when I wrote it, and I succeeded, and that’s what makes me a good writer. Co-dependent, maybe, but good nonetheless.   Good??  Good??  We don’t need no stink’n "good" here.  You write damn well.  Better than simply "good".  I think I respond to a lot of your posts don’t I??  Well I read a lot of them anyway.  I think most times I feel like a tuning fork around you.  You bang yourself on the head, write some shit on your computer, and send it into ASD.  Then I read it and start to vibrate…..

I just *love* that metaphor, Stewart!  A tuning fork – works with my musical talent, too.  Vibrate, resonate, what a lovely effect to have on someone else, after years of feeling invisible…I like it.  Thank you for that positive feedback.  I feel as if I’m beginning to get the hang of the type of writing I want to create – the words that pull other people into my feelings, and make them real.  Thanks. Bluebird the good writer

Response:

Bluebird said: But, Stewart, Mark is right.  I don’t really feel overlooked, but I *am* a

Jeez, Bluebird.  You talked to both Stewart and Mark about my question, and totally ignored me.  Now *I* feel overlooked!  How rude! — Bunny

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – You mean this one? As you see from my answers to Stewart and Mark, I was just trying to get Stewart’s attention with that remark . Bluebird, I was kidding! But, in RL, I felt overlooked for most of my life.  I felt invisible, as if I could enter a room and never leave a ripple.  I was considered too fat and ugly to ever attract a man, and I was "too needy" to have friends.  Only in the last couple of years, since I began meds for depression, have I finally come forward out of the shadows, and I can thank ASD for a lot of that courage. The early programming we get can be so powerful.  We absorb it and then perpetuate it, nurture it, live out the script we were handed.  Sometimes we realize early on we can just put the script down and write our own, and sometimes we keep reading it and reading it and reading it, enacting scenes, enacting a life, that some other writer wrote for us.  And then we wake up and realize what we’ve been doing, how we’ve embraced and chosen to enact a script that no one had the power to make us enact for so long, and we wonder why we did it, why we chose this when no one has been making us for years and years and years.  Why did we decide to give that power away, why make others so powerful, when they don’t even want that power to decide for us anyway. My mother visited me many years ago, and we drove to the old neighbourhood. We went to the house I grew up in.  My mother is a charming woman, and I am her charming daughter, and the postman was there and he remembered us, charming, they always remember us, and he went to the door of our house where other people had lived for many years now.  He introduced us, and they gave us a tour of the house. It was so very odd.  They had redecorated and remodeled extensively.  On the outside, the house looked the same.  Inside, it was completely different.  The kitchen where my parents sat and argued and got drunk and my stepfather was nasty and my mother cried, it was all different.  It didn’t exist any more.  That past, gone.  Downstairs.  My room wasn’t there any more.  The nightmare setting for so many outrages, the place where I would hide and my stepfather would come to my room, drunk, and berate me and hurt me, the room where I would lay quietly crying afterwards, and my mother would come downstairs, drunk (she doesn’t remember any of this now), and she would come to my room and cry and say I’m sorry, I’m sorry, I can’t do anything about it, and then go back upstairs and be with him and I would accept that, never thinking that she *could* protect me if she wanted to…gone.  These places did not exist.  They ceased to exist thousands of heartbeats ago, thousands, and it was a powerful gestalt: these things existed only in my mind now.  They were alive only in me.  They had no more power; I could never be returned to that place that no longer existed. They did not exist independent of my internal process that kept it alive. In India, they used to train elephants by chaining their legs with strong metal chains.  Later, they replaced the chain of metal with a chain of woven straw.  You can place a chicken in a small cage and keep it there for a long time.  You can take the cage away, and the chicken will sit there, unfettered, still unmoving from that spot.  Fly, chicken, break free and run, elephant, run and fly, be chicken and elephant as you were born to be. Chains of straw, cages of air, and why did we believe the lie for so long? Okay, Bunny?  I didn’t mean to overlook you. I knew that, I was just teasing you.

dear bunny, some critic said that all great writing is born out of injustice.  i don’t know if that’s true, sadness too is a deep well. anyhow, that girl who was too fat and too ugly for love, you charmed me too, two rows back in homeroom.  lots of us did, those whose love was not good enough to give. dyou know the derivation of the word nostalgia?  it’s an easy parse… nos is the first person plural possessive, e.g., our, and algia is pain, just as in neuralgia or analgesic or whatever.  our pain. a month or so ago i dropped by my childhood home, a subdivision built in a more innocent time.  i was on my way to an interview at yale, fancy place, a job for which i wasn’t remotely qualified.  they haven’t done me the courtesy of a rejection letter. there i was, man in a suit.  jehovah’s witness.  the guy came to the door in his bathrobe.  just want to walk around outside.  whatever.  bathrobe, in the middle of the day: it took me a few minutes to figure out i must have interrupted love making.  i wondered which room. walked around, walked around, felt like an appraiser.  it was just a house, built on fill, probably mid one thirties. in this market, maybe more. my wife used to work in a consignment shop, selling used clothing.  it’s not unlike wall street, just a whole lot slower.  there were good suppliers, women who never took off tags, and there were buyers who would come on a moment’s notice.  ann klein: I’m on my way. one woman was a phenomenal source, but from the very start, there was something wrong.  for one thing, the clothes were never her size… they were every size but.  still, she had exquisite taste. turns out, she ran an apartment building, or some set of condos.  for a while, my wife thought the clothes might be abandoned, left behind, artifacts of night time departures, shhh, get in the car now. turns out, they were stolen.  she did have a good eye for value. me, when i wear a suit, i feel as if i am in those stolen clothes.  it’s like, how clothes tend to know your secrets over time.  they take your smell, they take your shape, they record things you cannot remember, much as rooms and walls and staircases record our lives in skittering super-eight dumbshow.  we cannot remember what happened.  i do not know whose clothes these are, their secrets are opaque, my secrets, they’re on some other rack. only pain is portable.  nostalgia. love, michael

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Archive-name: alt-support-depression/An-ASD-Sampler/part1 Posting-Frequency: bi-weekly Last-modified: 1998/1/27                An alt.support.depression Sampler Is this an "official" post of some kind??         No.  This is *not* an official post of alt.support.depression (ASD).  This post (in 3 parts) has been approved by the moderators of the *.answers usenet newsgroups.  Approval by the moderators of the *.answers newsgroups means that; (1) these posts can appear on ASD, news.answers, and alt.answers (2) these posts will be archived on the rtfm.mit.edu anonymous FTP server         (ftp://rtfm.mit.edu/pub/usenet-by-hierarchy/alt/support/depression/) (3) these posts can be "autoposted" using a FAQ server run by rtfm.mit.edu. Is this some kind of FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions)??         Over the 2 years that I have been reading alt.support.depression, there have been many discussions about what should or should not be posted, and about what this group is or is not.  On several occasions people have suggested that a FAQ be formulated to put down on paper (as it were) the expectations that members of this group have of each other.  I am sorry, and happy, to say that I have not been able to compile such a document.  If this is a FAQ, then it is a very unconventional FAQ.  Aside from the FAQ-style Questions and Answers here in the beginning of this post, that explain what this post is and is not, the rest of this post does not conform to the usual FAQ format. If this is not a FAQ, then what the heck is it??         This alt.support.depression Sampler is an attempt to collect some of the simple expressions of personal experience that make alt.support.depression (ASD) such an important place.  This Sampler cannot be all things to all people.  Most of the posts to ASD will never find their way into this Sampler simply because this is only a *very* small "sample" of what is posted to ASD, and because so much of ASD simply does not fit into this very limited and constrained format.  Anything less than the whole of every single post to ASD reflects the hand of whomever chooses to sift and winnow through the 300+ posts that find their way to ASD each day.  Thus this Sampler reveals as much about myself and my own personal values, as it does about ASD and the people who participate here.         Although I sometimes find life very painful, I personally do not really want to die.  But to leave ASD is to die here in metaphor.  So, when I leave ASD, I would like to leave behind a little bit of myself so that I might somehow live on.  I thought this list might be a good way to do that. Perhaps this Sampler can act as an "indirect FAQ by example" for ASD.  In a way, I guess this Sampler provides an indirect and rambling answer to the question "what is this newsgroup all about".  The real and complete answer to this question, however, cannot be contained in any summary, digest, or sampler.  The real answer to this question can only be found in the statement "this group is what we make it when we post to it".  The real answer to this question can only be found here on ASD each and every day. If I don’t have a post in this list, does it mean all of my posts are worthless??         No.  Absolutely not.  As I said above, this is only a *very* small sample of ASD, and most of ASD simply does not fit this format.  In addition, about 90% of the entries here were chosen by me.  So if your words are not found in this Sampler, then it likely means that *I* did not, for whatever random or twisted reasons, pick out something that you have said.  I really wish you would nominate something you said. If I don’t have a post in this list, does it mean that I am worthless??         No.  Absolutely not.  See the answer to the question above. Is this list static, or set in stone??         No.  It is my personal belief that this ASD Sampler is only useful if it continues to be updated by those who read ASD.  Not only is the content of this list modified by what people say on ASD, but even the very name of this list has been modified based on feedback from readers.  If you have read or said something that you think should be included here then not the person who posted what you submitted to me, then I will try to contact the original "owner" of the post and ask them if they mind that we include their words in this list. Where can I find a "real" FAQ for ASD??         There are other informal FAQ-style posts that appear on ASD from time to time.  However, the only FAQ-style post that is currently approved by the moderators of *.answers for posting on ASD is the "alt.support.depression FAQ" (in 5 parts).  This FAQ is very informative with respect to depression, but it contains relatively little information related specifically to ASD.  For more information related specifically to ASD, you should check out http://www.lava.net/~dewilson/asd/resources.html as a resource. 2, 4, 6, 8, who do we appreciate??         If it is not obvious, I want to thank all of those who have consented to have their words placed here.  In addition, I want to thank in advance anyone who responds and gives me feedback of any kind.  If you find anything on this list that you do not like for any reason, please let me know. So where is this ASD Sampler already??         It starts right below.  It is in three parts, with the oldest quotes first and more recent quotes at the end of the third part.    An alt.support.depression Sampler,  part 1 of 3         Like my ideas, feelings, opinions, and actions are somehow invalid or otherwise compromised because I was in the loony bin, or because I have faulty brain chemistry and an American Tourister showroom full of baggage. Subject line: A message from your mother         It’s a lovely day outside!!  Would you PLEASE stop spending so much time at that computer.  Why don’t you at least take a little walk, get some fresh air?  A little physical activity wouldn’t hurt you.  Don’t forget to wear your jacket!!         Cindi pulling on her flame retardant leather undies.         Ever been told you’re "overqualified" for the position available? Now what the fuck is that supposed to mean, and what can you possibly say in return?  "Oh, don’t worry, I’m much dumber than my resume makes me out to be?"         Today I feel ill, dizzy, and weak, my guts in turmoil.  And while I’m reasonably certain this is so, I wonder if my head has directed my body to misbehave.  There is plenty to be angry about these days and I cannot be sure if it is swallowed food or swallowed anger that has made me ill.         Over and over again the Bible says, "Believe in God, and you will see good things happen."  The Bible has it completely backwards, I think. A true profession of faith is, instead, "See good things in what happens, and you will believe in God!"  Religious beliefs ask us to celebrate the good things in life.  To seek them out, and enjoy what pleasures we can while we are alive.  Thus, the proper prayer of thanksgiving is not, "Thank you God, for all of the great things in my life", but rather, "Thank you, God, for giving me the ability to enjoy what pleasures there are in my life!"         If someone says "I think shock therapy is so great that everyone should try it", and you don’t agree, the proper response ought to be; "Many people have had a bad experience with shock treatment and it is not for everyone".  One should NOT say;  "You are obviously the product of 200 years of inbreeding, and you are a moronic insensitive clod who should take your asinine opinions elsewhere".         I will send you directions on how to assemble these lights along with a materials list and directions for use.  I am a Clinical Psychologist with 10 years experience treating SAD (Seasonal Affective Disorder).  Send $5.00 along with a stamped, self addressed envelope to….         Of course, you COULD just post that info here on ASD and let everybody have it for free, but I guess that wouldn’t be the American way, would it?   <sigh signature file:         The opinions given above may be mine.  They might also just be what I feel like saying right now, okay? support groups:         Available for your inspection.  A medical emergency I.D. card that could save your life.  For complete information go to . . . (www-site-deleted).         I want a card that says  "No, I really mean it this time.  Please leave me alone." reduced expectations":         Life is good.  My toilet hasn’t overflowed once today.

… read more »

Response:

I like your samplers — I enjoyed reading this one.  Even though I haven’t been included in one.   *pout*   <big grin

Response:

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