Depression Learning

32 y/o Male Married 6 years. Together 11 years. Lots of questions

Question:

On Fri, 12 Mar 2004 15:36:53 +0000, Seeker wrote: >> Anyone care to add their own definition(s)? > I wouldn’t dare.  But there seem to be two very strong points of view — > one is that love is something you discover (it just happens) and the > other is that love is something you choose.   I wonder how the second > idea ever surfaced, since the first one is probably what most people > would say. > Ted

Yes Ted, you are correct, most people ‘find’ love, or don’t.. But I do believe that love can be cultivated given the proper attitude, environment, and of course two willing and well intended partners. Look at it this way, which blueberry bush has the largest and most luscious berries, A wild one, or one that is constantly cared for in cultivation? Undoubtedly there will always be a divergence of opinion concerning love, but first you have to identify what love is, and isn’t, before any qualifications or quantification can be determined. Caren described something very significant which many people don’t seem to understand.  Most people of any age have experienced lust, infatuation, and strong affection, but real love… Hmmmmm… I doubt from all I know and have heard that too many have. Just my considered opinion, based on observation and statements from friends, and a study of arranged marriages. Diana

Response:

Seeker <anon-30…@anon.twwells.com> wrote: > In article <pan.2004.03.12.05.15.15.256…@comcast.net>, Dr. Di > <dian…@comcast.net> wrote: > > Anyone care to add their own definition(s)? > I wouldn’t dare.  But there seem to be two very strong points of view > — one is that love is something you discover (it just happens) and the > other is that love is something you choose.   I wonder how the second > idea ever surfaced, since the first one is probably what most people > would say.

Personally, I don’t think you can simply choose to love someone you don’t love.  In that sense, you find love.  To me, the choice comes in later – deciding to do what it takes to keep or recover that love when the going gets rough. The marriage builder folks believe true in-love love *can* be created, and maybe they are right.  Some arranged marriages work out beautifully from what I’ve read.

Response:

In article <pan.2004.03.12.05.15.15.256…@comcast.net>, Dr. Di <dian…@comcast.net> wrote: > Anyone care to add their own definition(s)?

I wouldn’t dare.  But there seem to be two very strong points of view — one is that love is something you discover (it just happens) and the other is that love is something you choose.   I wonder how the second idea ever surfaced, since the first one is probably what most people would say. Ted

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -On Thu, 11 Mar 2004 19:33:50 -0800, Caren wrote: > "Dr. Di" <dian…@comcast.net> wrote in message > <news:[email protected]>… >> On Wed, 10 Mar 2004 19:32:17 -0800, Caren wrote: (in part) >> > Well, I have a different take than most of you.  I understand where >> > this poster is coming from.  I don’t think it’s his depression (my >> > opinion only).  I don’t think that he is being selfish.  I don’t >> > think that there is anything wrong with wanting more and admitting >> > that you married for the wrong reasons. >> > What I do see is a man who knows in his gut that this is not "right". >> > IN the eyes of all who know them, yes, it’s right.  But in his heart >> > it isn’t.  I have fallen in love several times in my life.  I love my >> > current husband.  However, I had one love in my life that was, to me, >> > the living end.  We could not make it together.  I do still think >> > about him periodically and do think that he was "the one" despite >> > that we are not together.  I suppose that that is why I understand >> > where the poster is coming from. >> > He sounds pretty normal to me  But then again, I"m not normal. >> Caren, I’m really interested.. You say you love your Husband, and you >> had a previous love that was ‘the living end’. How do or did they >> differ in your mind, was it a matter of physical passion, spirituality, >> or what? >> Maybe what I’m asking is what is ‘love’ to you? >> Diana > I think that love takes on many forms, at least for me it did (does). > The man who really and truly was what I call the love of my life, was in > love with me but he was a messed up man.  He had so many issues and > baggage including a wife that just couldn’t let go of him, despite the > fact that they were divorced. > I tolerated so much stuff that I amaze myself when looking back on it. >  The relationship was so incredibly filled with passion, I could melt > just looking at him.  I wanted to have sex with him all of the time. He > complained that I wanted too much sex.  He was not happy that I was not > up to par with his intellect (computer nerd).  He did not like that I > did not like computers.  He wanted me to get a boob job (and mine are a > 36 d- TMI, sorry!)  He also had a motorcycle and wanted me to go on > trips with him.  I didn’t like it but I went with him every Sunday, > scared out of my wits but happy to be hugging this tall, dark and > handsome hunk who was very, very passionate in bed.  He was the first > man that satisfied me completely sexually.  Our bodies fit like bread > and butter.  I could go on and on. > But there was too much dysfunction and I knew that staying with him > would be a lifetime of love, pain and heartbreak.  He went on to marry > someone else as did I.  It ended painfully and it took me years to get > over it.  I sometimes struggle with it and we have emailed a few times a > few months ago.  It has helped me put closure on it.  He has Parkinson’s > disease and I feel such sadness for him. > At any rate Di, my husband, who I do love, in "some" ways is more > grounded and rounded.  I was immediately attracted to him physically > (unlike the OP)- he was big, the way I like men.  Beautiful blue eyes. >  Funny as hell and very, very smart.  He fit the bill but he lived in > a state that I had no desire to live in.  I left my home, married him > and we have had our struggles over the almost 12 years that I have been > here.  Mostly I miss the weather and the ocean.  They were my deep > spiritual outlets.  Being outdoors, smelling the sea, sinking my toes > into the sand and lying outside on a cloudy days, listening to the ocean > while reading a book.  My life could not be any more opposite if I > tried.  So perhaps part of it is that a huge part of me is missing where > I am right now. > > The things that my ex and I did in CA were focused around the > beach-hiking outdoors and riding bikes and running.  Here, I have a > treadmill at home and joined a gym.  Some of my spirit has died here. > Things are improving and I know that it needs to come from me.  Both my > husband and I have grown over the years in different ways, but in > crucial ways.  He is  years younger than I and my son was 15 or 16 when > we met 13 years ago.  They had things in common that I didn’t have in > common with either of them.  It was nice. > Some of what we have is wonderful .  Some of what we have had was very > painful.  We are both working on what hurt us-he for his stuff and me on > forgiveness.  But you know, as you get older, you learn more and grow > more and change.  I am changing my views on things.  I’m a happier > person for that.  He is growing too.  He is a happier person. We are > more tolerant of our differences whereas we alwasy wanted the other to > change. > I love him and I guess while there was that initial passion and sort of > neediness-the whole honeymoon thing-it wore off too fast and I think > that some of it was my baggage and some of it was his issues that he > never dealt with.  I feel hopeful right now as I see us more accepting > and patient.  I’m hoping that our marriage will one day become one that > is filled with honesty and respect and passion.  I can proudly say that > the passion is returning and I will take the kudos for that.  I have > been working on it with much success and I have a feeling that we’re > going to go places that not only he has wanted to go….but I am going > to happily take him there. > I don’tknow if this has answered your question Di, but it has helped me > verbalize what has been going on in my head for a while.  Thanks for > asking.

I think what you experienced is what some describe as the ‘love of your life’. Many may disagree, but the experience certainly leaves a brand on your soul which seems impossible to eradicate. Feel blessed and fortunate, because I’m convinced most have never experienced love to that level. And to the naysayers that will say it was only infatuation, I’ll suggest that infatuation doesn’t persist as you described. I had a similar experience, and I was never so happy in my life. Love changed everything about my outlook on life, and my interaction with others. It ended badly when I discovered he was married. Like a fool I still hung on, not wanting to let go of what was so wonderful to behold. In the end however the resulting pain from that incident was almost more than I could handle, but somehow I did.. Let me add that if he had asked for my blood, I would have said ‘where’s the bucket’.. Thanks for sharing what is normally not discussed in depth. You have added a piece to the puzzle of life that I have been building, with the hope that someday I’ll know how better to define ‘love’. For now I use the definition that seems to describe what I have felt, and feel, "When you care for someone’s well being and happiness more than you do your own".. Of course that definition must be incomplete since it leaves out physical passion.. Oh well… Anyone care to add their own definition(s)? Diana

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -"Dr. Di" <dian…@comcast.net> wrote in message <news:[email protected]>… > On Wed, 10 Mar 2004 19:32:17 -0800, Caren wrote: (in part) > > Well, I have a different take than most of you.  I understand where this > > poster is coming from.  I don’t think it’s his depression (my opinion > > only).  I don’t think that he is being selfish.  I don’t think that > > there is anything wrong with wanting more and admitting that you married > > for the wrong reasons. > > What I do see is a man who knows in his gut that this is not "right". IN > > the eyes of all who know them, yes, it’s right.  But in his heart it > > isn’t.  I have fallen in love several times in my life.  I love my > > current husband.  However, I had one love in my life that was, to me, > > the living end.  We could not make it together.  I do still think about > > him periodically and do think that he was "the one" despite that we are > > not together.  I suppose that that is why I understand where the poster > > is coming from. > > He sounds pretty normal to me  But then again, I"m not normal. > Caren, I’m really interested.. You say you love your Husband, and you had > a previous love that was ‘the living end’. How do or did they differ in > your mind, was it a matter of physical passion, spirituality, or what? > Maybe what I’m asking is what is ‘love’ to you? > Diana

I think that love takes on many forms, at least for me it did (does). The man who really and truly was what I call the love of my life, was in love with me but he was a messed up man.  He had so many issues and baggage including a wife that just couldn’t let go of him, despite the fact that they were divorced. I tolerated so much stuff that I amaze myself when looking back on it.  The relationship was so incredibly filled with passion, I could melt just looking at him.  I wanted to have sex with him all of the time. He complained that I wanted too much sex.  He was not happy that I was not up to par with his intellect (computer nerd).  He did not like that I did not like computers.  He wanted me to get a boob job (and mine are a 36 d- TMI, sorry!)  He also had a motorcycle and wanted me to go on trips with him.  I didn’t like it but I went with him every Sunday, scared out of my wits but happy to be hugging this tall, dark and handsome hunk who was very, very passionate in bed.  He was the first man that satisfied me completely sexually.  Our bodies fit like bread and butter.  I could go on and on. But there was too much dysfunction and I knew that staying with him would be a lifetime of love, pain and heartbreak.  He went on to marry someone else as did I.  It ended painfully and it took me years to get over it.  I sometimes struggle with it and we have emailed a few times a few months ago.  It has helped me put closure on it.  He has Parkinson’s disease and I feel such sadness for him. At any rate Di, my husband, who I do love, in "some" ways is more grounded and rounded.  I was immediately attracted to him physically (unlike the OP)- he was big, the way I like men.  Beautiful blue eyes.  Funny as hell and very, very smart.  He fit the bill but he lived in a state that I had no desire to live in.  I left my home, married him and we have had our struggles over the almost 12 years that I have been here.  Mostly I miss the weather and the ocean.  They were my deep spiritual outlets.  Being outdoors, smelling the sea, sinking my toes into the sand and lying outside on a cloudy days, listening to the ocean while reading a book.  My life could not be any more opposite if I tried.  So perhaps part of it is that a huge part of me is missing where I am right now. The things that my ex and I did in CA were focused around the beach-hiking outdoors and riding bikes and running.  Here, I have a treadmill at home and joined a gym.  Some of my spirit has died here. Things are improving and I know that it needs to come from me.  Both my husband and I have grown over the years in different ways, but in crucial ways.  He is  years younger than I and my son was 15 or 16 when we met 13 years ago.  They had things in common that I didn’t have in common with either of them.  It was nice. Some of what we have is wonderful .  Some of what we have had was very painful.  We are both working on what hurt us-he for his stuff and me on forgiveness.  But you know, as you get older, you learn more and grow more and change.  I am changing my views on things.  I’m a happier person for that.  He is growing too.  He is a happier person. We are more tolerant of our differences whereas we alwasy wanted the other to change. I love him and I guess while there was that initial passion and sort of neediness-the whole honeymoon thing-it wore off too fast and I think that some of it was my baggage and some of it was his issues that he never dealt with.  I feel hopeful right now as I see us more accepting and patient.  I’m hoping that our marriage will one day become one that is filled with honesty and respect and passion.  I can proudly say that the passion is returning and I will take the kudos for that.  I have been working on it with much success and I have a feeling that we’re going to go places that not only he has wanted to go….but I am going to happily take him there. I don’tknow if this has answered your question Di, but it has helped me verbalize what has been going on in my head for a while.  Thanks for asking.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Shashay Doofray <shas…@yahoo.com> wrote: > "Ignoramus21909" <ignoramus21…@NOSPAM.21909.invalid> wrote in message > news:c2nlfo$rlt$[email protected]… > > You have not given nearly the complete background, I can say that > > based on your certain other posts to certain other newsgroups. I will > > leave it at that. > > Anyway, knowing what I have seen, my answer is no way you should have > > children with your wife. > > i > Oh my, Ig.  How true.  Doing a quick seach on Goole for "lovingperson" was > quite an eye-opening experience.  I’m sorry I wasted my time replying to > him.  Some people.

Ew.  Me too.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -WhansaMi wrote: > Oh.. and despite, in the previous post, saying he was monogamous, I > found this little gem dated 2/26/04 > Dear all: >      When you’ve had success in the past picking up women in the gym, > was it based on your looks/physique or was it because you had a good > rap?  I see these good look’n females at the gym and I’d like to get > some of that.  My physique isn’t the buffest or the most chiselled. >      A few days ago, I asked about the money exercises (ie the most > efficient exercises to build physique).  Well, this question I am > asking is the real money question.  I am working out so I can get > chicks.  So, in some ways, this question is the most important > question asked yet. > any input would be appreciated. > signed:  want some poon. > Lovely, isn’t it?

Yummy….. Tai (puke)

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Ignoramus16578 wrote: > In article <ob81509l13fe77qljpj6v44hfbr2a17…@4ax.com>, Rauni wrote: >> On 11 Mar 2004 14:06:46 GMT, Ignoramus16578 >> <ignoramus16…@NOSPAM.16578.invalid> wrote: >>> In article <nuhv40166fmdceqr9votl34r2fepaft…@4ax.com>, Rauni wrote: >>>> On Wed, 10 Mar 2004 19:22:57 -0600, "Shashay Doofray" >>>> <shas…@yahoo.com> wrote: >>>>> "Ignoramus21909" <ignoramus21…@NOSPAM.21909.invalid> wrote in message >>>>> news:c2nlfo$rlt$[email protected]… >>>>>> You have not given nearly the complete background, I can say that >>>>>> based on your certain other posts to certain other newsgroups. I will >>>>>> leave it at that. >>>>>> Anyway, knowing what I have seen, my answer is no way you should have >>>>>> children with your wife. >>>>>> i >>>>> Oh my, Ig.  How true.  Doing a quick seach on Goole for "lovingperson" was >>>>> quite an eye-opening experience.  I’m sorry I wasted my time replying to >>>>> him.  Some people. >>>>> SD >>>> Ewww he’s creepy >>> http://tinyurl.com/2d2ju >>> http://tinyurl.com/2qovf >> How would you like your loved one going to this person for psychiatric >> care? > I have met and was friends with, a few, not many, people with > psychology background (3). > All of those people had what seemed very serious mental problems > (interfering with their lives), although, possibly, they could be > helpful to others. One was an outright drug addict. > My theory is that psychology attracts people who have mental problems > themselves.

That’s true for some, but not all.    Be careful not to overgeneralize.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -On Wed, 10 Mar 2004 19:32:17 -0800, Caren wrote: (in part) > Well, I have a different take than most of you.  I understand where this > poster is coming from.  I don’t think it’s his depression (my opinion > only).  I don’t think that he is being selfish.  I don’t think that > there is anything wrong with wanting more and admitting that you married > for the wrong reasons. > What I do see is a man who knows in his gut that this is not "right". IN > the eyes of all who know them, yes, it’s right.  But in his heart it > isn’t.  I have fallen in love several times in my life.  I love my > current husband.  However, I had one love in my life that was, to me, > the living end.  We could not make it together.  I do still think about > him periodically and do think that he was "the one" despite that we are > not together.  I suppose that that is why I understand where the poster > is coming from. > He sounds pretty normal to me  But then again, I"m not normal.

Caren, I’m really interested.. You say you love your Husband, and you had a previous love that was ‘the living end’. How do or did they differ in your mind, was it a matter of physical passion, spirituality, or what? Maybe what I’m asking is what is ‘love’ to you? Diana

Response:

"Caren" <care…@msn.com> wrote in message

news:[email protected]… > "nachtigal" <nachti…@mail2hell.com> wrote in message

<news:c2o6ca$48v$04$[email protected]>… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> > "LovingPerson" wrote: > > <snip I-love-her-but-i

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