Depression Learning

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Question:

i have spent lots of time this evening (in the cold !!) talking on the phone with a friend of mine, she also is severely depressed. the meds, therapy aren’t helping, so i asked her if she could think that some alternatives could exist for her to help her make her feel better. so, i wanted to ask you the same question: do you think that some alternatives could exist? like for example a rainbow ? hope you do not mind take care phoenix — . – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – i am severely depressed. jt — "To laugh often and much, to win the respect of intelligent people and the affection of children. To leave the world a bit better, whether by a healthy child, a garden patch, or a redeemed social condition. To know that even one life has breathed easier because you have lived, this is to have succeeded." – Author Unknown

Response:

*sends lots of hugs and warm thoughts your way if k* we care.  l*v u. all of rainstar i am severely depressed. jt

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Response:

i am severely depressed.

 i’m sorry to hear that. can i offer you a flower?  it’s a tulip, a dark purple one with double petals.  the color is so rich it looks like velvet.  it feels so soft to brush against your cheek. -kelly

Response:

thank you.  it’s lovely.  *puts it in a vase* jt

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – i am severely depressed.  i’m sorry to hear that. can i offer you a flower?  it’s a tulip, a dark purple one with double petals.  the color is so rich it looks like velvet.  it feels so soft to brush against your cheek. -kelly

Response:

i am severely depressed. *holds hand, standing beside you this time* Do you want to talk about it here? Lots of caring friends wishing you felt better. Please?

The identity has been deleted to protect the sender *grin* Mostly cause I’m too lazy to type the x-no thingee right now:) i appreciate your concern. i am caught in an endless loop…which of course can’t be endless, but feels that way.  there’s something about which i’m depressed.  being depressed makes that something impossible in itself.  so even if it were possible to fix

I think this sentence is where I start to lose it. ‘being depressed makes that something impossible’ like… having a new baby is a happy thing so how can someone be depressed afterward? Or, wanting a new house and finally getting one is a good thing so how can someone be depressed after getting it? That sort of thing? the something, i can’t because it’s broken because i’m depressed.

Being depressed doesn’t ‘break’ anything. It makes it move like it’s in molasses. It makes things that are ’supposed to’ be happy not happy. It makes you look at life through a fog. It doesn’t break things. Imo of course the effort required to pick myself up by my bootstraps and just *do* it seems enormous.

Yep. That never worked for me either. besides, the problem is that i’m trying to act in healthy ways regarding this something.  just *doing* it would involve me acting unhealthily.

Um, this might be a bit too circular. If you don’t want to act healthy or if you ‘can’t’ act healthy, then trying to force yourself to do so might just make everything worse. You have to be true to who you are when you are whomever it is you are *grin*. Your reality is most important. If it is important to you to resolve this you probly are going to have to accept that you are depressed about it and allow yourself to _be_ depressed. Of course it would be even better if you could figure out what emotion is there with the depression or under the depression and feel _that_… …which would probably make me more depressed if i just did it. this is where being multiple can be useful.  there are others here – somewhere – who aren’t depressed.  eventually they may be able to switch on to first and fix the problem.

*ahem* Might I suggest that this is a cop out? I don’t usually think this about multiplicity but sometimes whomever it is is experiencing the emotion and/or the problem has to just face it. Sure you can get them to help you (and get everyone in asd to help to for that matter) but if _you_ are feeling depressed then I would think there is something YOU have to deal with. Even if someone else inside can fix the problem there is still something _you_ will have to deal with. Imo of course. there just seems to be a lot of us on hiatus right now.

Ooh, gone POOF have you? I used to hate when that happened! Rainbow Colors (Jill) remote fondness, friend. jt

–      The colors blend, the edges soften. Swirling and mixing                    we are becoming white light.

Response:

i am severely depressed. jt — "To laugh often and much, to win the respect of intelligent people and the affection of children. To leave the world a bit better, whether by a healthy child, a garden patch, or a redeemed social condition. To know that even one life has breathed easier because you have lived, this is to have succeeded." – Author Unknown

Response:

i have spent lots of time this evening (in the cold !!) talking on the phone with a friend of mine, she also is severely depressed. the meds, therapy aren’t helping, so i asked her if she could think that some alternatives could exist for her to help her make her feel better. so, i wanted to ask you the same question: do you think that some alternatives could exist? like for example a rainbow ?

Rainbows solve everything. Well, not really, but it would be nice if they did. They do make people feel better though. Dat reminds me about a dog finding a rainbow. I think he’s referring to the fact that dogs aren’t supposed to be able to see colour. Why are there so many songs about rainbows? I think they’re pretty miraculous myself. Chris

Response:

i am severely depressed. jt

Because… Rainbow Colors (Jill) —      The colors blend, the edges soften. Swirling and mixing                    we are becoming white light.

Response:

yeah.  they’re cool. was gonna make the connection by asking that same question, but… ya beat me to it. you get the pot of gold. by the way, have you been half asleep, and have you heard voices?  i’ve heard them calling my name…  I’ve heard it too many times to ignore it.  It’s something that i’m sposed to be…. crying now.  that’s good.  thx. jt

i have spent lots of time this evening (in the cold !!)

talking on the phone – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – with a friend of mine, she also is severely depressed. the meds, therapy aren’t helping, so i asked her if she could think that some alternatives could exist for her to help her make her feel better. so, i wanted to ask you the same question: do you think that some alternatives could exist? like for example a rainbow ? Rainbows solve everything. Well, not really, but it would be nice if they did. They do make people feel better though. Dat reminds me about a dog finding a rainbow. I think he’s referring to the fact that dogs aren’t supposed to be able to see colour. Why are there so many songs about rainbows? I think they’re pretty miraculous myself. Chris

Response:

(phoenix sended me lotsa rainbow stuffs in neopests.  :) *hee*  *shy smile*) it’s one of those things that’ll get better in time.  i just gotta be miserable for a bit.  *shrugs* been workin on this particular problem for 6 years.  t says it’s 95% fixed.  by my calculations, sometime around june 28th i should be fine. am hoping for a couple weeks off for good behavior, so getting this fixed will be my anniversary present (6/12/99). (yes, for those who’re confused:  dave and i have 2 anniversaries.) see?  this is the regular run-of-the-mill depression, tinged with bitterness n stuff.  i can handle this better. *grr* *faint smile* jt

i have spent lots of time this evening (in the cold !!)

talking on the phone – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – with a friend of mine, she also is severely depressed. the meds, therapy aren’t helping, so i asked her if she could think that some alternatives could exist for her to help her make her feel better. so, i wanted to ask you the same question: do you think that some alternatives could exist? like for example a rainbow ? hope you do not mind take care phoenix — . i am severely depressed. jt — "To laugh often and much, to win the respect of intelligent people and the affection of children. To leave the world a bit better, whether by a healthy child, a garden patch, or a redeemed social condition. To know that even one life has breathed easier because you have lived, this is to have succeeded." – Author Unknown

Response:

thx. coffee helped. jt

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – *sends lots of hugs and warm thoughts your way if k* we care.  l*v u. all of rainstar i am severely depressed. jt — For more information about this NNTP posting service, contact: If you want an anonymous account, visit our sign-up page: https://asarian-host.net/cgi-bin/signup.cgi

Response:

snippage all over the place… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – This may seem to contradict rule #1, which is the 10-post minimum one, but…  When it comes to questions of guilt No, this was set up to keep people from feeling guilty about posting ‘too much’ (whatever the heck _that_ is:) cause we had people here complaining they were posting ‘too much’ and monopolizing bandwidth. oh yeah…that would have been the part *before* i figured out that if i try to do too much on this group, i crash n burn!

Actually, this was _way_ before you started posting here. By the time you showed up we had all figured out that posting was a good thing and you were the only one hung up on ‘too much’ – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – over not posting a reply, or not being able to read what someone wrote, rule #2 is more important. and jill’s the one who helped me figure that one out, so i don’t think she’ll contradict me…..although now she’ll have to, just to be contrary…  :) So, just to be contrary about being contrary I’m going to agree with you. *smirk* yup.  predictable.  *shakes head sadly* jt

I am _consistent_. I am healthy and consistent and stable and all that. See, it’s a _good_ thing *huge grin* Rainbow Colors (Jill) Rainbow Colors (Jill)

–      The colors blend, the edges soften. Swirling and mixing                    we are becoming white light.

Response:

Is this a s**cide plan? I hope it isn’t. I really do. Did I give the impression that I was bothered by her? What do you know about my world? Vanessa

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – wee the **ck does that mean? Vanessa "wee" the f*ck? we’ll take care of it.  you won’t be bothered by her it MEANS that we’ve got plans for her that will _erase_ her from the outside world, so she won’t be disturbing the comfortable little world you got going here anymore.  that make it any clearer??? "If you ask for my opinion or perception, kindly don’t disparage me when I give it to you." – Elisabeth, of Ravensong

Response:

On the contrary. I am not angry with them at all. In fact, I don’t believe I even know them. I get a little miffed in general when people post vague allusions to s*icide because I think that in a way it is a little retraumating(and triggering for me personally) and just a little manipulative. Spoilered for talk of s*icide and manipulation. * * * * * * * * * * My mother used to stand in front of me and hold a razor to her wrist. If I tried to stop her, I didn’t care enough about her to wrestle with her and take it away. If I didn’t try to stop her, I didn’t love her. These situations always leave me somewhat paralyzed and not knowing how to respond. Vanessa

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Can the two of you forgive me for this?     The following exchange has me roflol.         I mean, I can see that both of you are angry and hurting and stuff, and I hope you feel better, and I’ll listen and talk with both of you, but,         what can anyone do with  "wee the **ck?" "wee the rock?" "wee the pick?" "wee the lick?" "wee the dock?" "wee the nick?" "wee the luck?" "wee the lack?" "wee the sack?" "wee the pack?" "wee the sock?" "wee the duck?" "wee the tack?" "wee the lock?" "wee the muck?" "wee the rack?" I’m running out. trill p.s.  Diane, what’s going on?  Can you tell us anything that might have happened that flipped you out so bad as to threaten your safety? p.p.s.  Way below everything else here, I’m posting a raunchy joke about the current U.S.A. presidential administration.  No bad words, unless you are disturbed by thinking of anyone’s last name in those positions. wee the **ck does that mean? Vanessa "wee" the f*ck? we’ll take care of it.  you won’t be bothered by her it MEANS that we’ve got plans for her that will _erase_ her from the outside world, so she won’t be disturbing the comfortable little world you got going here anymore.  that make it any clearer??? "If you ask for my opinion or perception, kindly don’t disparage me when I give it to you." – Elisabeth, of Ravensong okay, here is my joke, after a little spoiler 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 "wee the ch*ney?"

Response:

ugh. sorry to hear that. just…ugh. dyenths

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – On the contrary. I am not angry with them at all. In fact, I don’t believe I even know them. I get a little miffed in general when people post vague allusions to s*icide because I think that in a way it is a little retraumating(and triggering for me personally) and just a little manipulative. Spoilered for talk of s*icide and manipulation. * * * * * * * * * * My mother used to stand in front of me and hold a razor to her wrist. If I tried to stop her, I didn’t care enough about her to

wrestle with her and – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – take it away. If I didn’t try to stop her, I didn’t love her. These situations always leave me somewhat paralyzed and not knowing how to respond. Vanessa Can the two of you forgive me for this?     The following exchange has me roflol.         I mean, I can see that both of you are angry and hurting and stuff, and I hope you feel better, and I’ll listen and talk with both of you, but,         what can anyone do with  "wee the **ck?" "wee the rock?" "wee the pick?" "wee the lick?" "wee the dock?" "wee the nick?" "wee the luck?" "wee the lack?" "wee the sack?" "wee the pack?" "wee the sock?" "wee the duck?" "wee the tack?" "wee the lock?" "wee the muck?" "wee the rack?" I’m running out. trill p.s.  Diane, what’s going on?  Can you tell us anything that might have happened that flipped you out so bad as to threaten your safety? p.p.s.  Way below everything else here, I’m posting a raunchy joke about the current U.S.A. presidential administration.  No bad

words, unless you are disturbed by thinking of anyone’s last name in those positions. wee the **ck does that mean? Vanessa "wee" the f*ck? we’ll take care of it.  you won’t be bothered by her it MEANS that we’ve got plans for her that will

_erase_ her from the outside world, so she won’t be disturbing the comfortable

little world you got – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – going here anymore.  that make it any clearer??? "If you ask for my opinion or perception, kindly don’t disparage me when I give it to you." – Elisabeth, of Ravensong okay, here is my joke, after a little spoiler 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 "wee the ch*ney?"

Response:

Can the two of you forgive me for this?     The following exchange has me roflol.         I mean, I can see that both of you are angry and hurting and stuff, and I hope you feel better, and I’ll listen and talk with both of you, but,         what can anyone do with  "wee the **ck?" "wee the rock?" "wee the pick?" "wee the lick?" "wee the dock?" "wee the nick?" "wee the luck?" "wee the lack?" "wee the sack?" "wee the pack?" "wee the sock?" "wee the duck?" "wee the tack?" "wee the lock?" "wee the muck?" "wee the rack?" I’m running out. trill p.s.  Diane, what’s going on?  Can you tell us anything that might have happened that flipped you out so bad as to threaten your safety? p.p.s.  Way below everything else here, I’m posting a raunchy joke about the current U.S.A. presidential administration.  No bad words, unless you are disturbed by thinking of anyone’s last name in those positions.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – wee the **ck does that mean? Vanessa "wee" the f*ck? we’ll take care of it.  you won’t be bothered by her it MEANS that we’ve got plans for her that will _erase_ her from the outside world, so she won’t be disturbing the comfortable little world you got going here anymore.  that make it any clearer??? "If you ask for my opinion or perception, kindly don’t disparage me when I give it to you." – Elisabeth, of Ravensong

okay, here is my joke, after a little spoiler 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 "wee the ch*ney?"

Response:

wee the **ck does that mean? Vanessa

"wee" the f*ck? we’ll take care of it.  you won’t be bothered by her

it MEANS that we’ve got plans for her that will _erase_ her from the outside world, so she won’t be disturbing the comfortable little world you got going here anymore.  that make it any clearer??? "If you ask for my opinion or perception, kindly don’t disparage me when I give it to you." – Elisabeth, of Ravensong

Response:

wee the **ck does that mean? Vanessa

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – we know she doesn’t matter to you.  we know some of you are angry with her and h*te her.  it’s ok now.  we’ll take care of it.  you won’t be bothered by her ever again here. those of the Dark Below, of Ravensong "If you ask for my opinion or perception, kindly don’t disparage me when I give it to you." – Elisabeth, of Ravensong

Response:

She does matter, and people here like her and care about her, and don’t feel bothered by her. She is valued. -Nancy

Response:

we know she doesn’t matter to you.  we know some of you are angry with her and h*te her.  it’s ok now.  we’ll take care of it.  you won’t be bothered by her ever again here. those of the Dark Below, of Ravensong "If you ask for my opinion or perception, kindly don’t disparage me when I give it to you." – Elisabeth, of Ravensong

Response:

Thanks. It was a crappy thing for her to do. Vanessa

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – ugh. sorry to hear that. just…ugh. dyenths On the contrary. I am not angry with them at all. In fact, I don’t believe I even know them. I get a little miffed in general when people post vague allusions to s*icide because I think that in a way it is a little retraumating(and triggering for me personally) and just a little manipulative. Spoilered for talk of s*icide and manipulation. * * * * * * * * * * My mother used to stand in front of me and hold a razor to her wrist. If I tried to stop her, I didn’t care enough about her to wrestle with her and take it away. If I didn’t try to stop her, I didn’t love her. These situations always leave me somewhat paralyzed and not knowing how to respond. Vanessa Can the two of you forgive me for this?     The following exchange has me roflol.         I mean, I can see that both of you are angry and hurting and stuff, and I hope you feel better, and I’ll listen and talk with both of you, but,         what can anyone do with  "wee the **ck?" "wee the rock?" "wee the pick?" "wee the lick?" "wee the dock?" "wee the nick?" "wee the luck?" "wee the lack?" "wee the sack?" "wee the pack?" "wee the sock?" "wee the duck?" "wee the tack?" "wee the lock?" "wee the muck?" "wee the rack?" I’m running out. trill p.s.  Diane, what’s going on?  Can you tell us anything that might have happened that flipped you out so bad as to threaten your safety? p.p.s.  Way below everything else here, I’m posting a raunchy joke about the current U.S.A. presidential administration.  No bad words, unless you are disturbed by thinking of anyone’s last name in those positions. wee the **ck does that mean? Vanessa "wee" the f*ck? we’ll take care of it.  you won’t be bothered by her it MEANS that we’ve got plans for her that will _erase_ her from the outside world, so she won’t be disturbing the comfortable little world you got going here anymore.  that make it any clearer??? "If you ask for my opinion or perception, kindly don’t disparage me when I give it to you." – Elisabeth, of Ravensong okay, here is my joke, after a little spoiler 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 "wee the ch*ney?"

Response:

Oh, okay. Vanessa

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – just my own thought, not even worth the $0.02 normally associated therewith…but it sounded more to me like the "part" that normally posted here was to be prevented access to the outside-system world, not that the system would cease functioning.  Could be wrong.  HTH.  HIR (Hope I’m Right). Luc, for dyenths Is this a s**cide plan? I hope it isn’t. I really do. Did I give the impression that I was bothered by her? What do you know about my world? Vanessa wee the **ck does that mean? Vanessa "wee" the f*ck? we’ll take care of it.  you won’t be bothered by her it MEANS that we’ve got plans for her that will _erase_ her from the outside world, so she won’t be disturbing the comfortable little world you got going here anymore.  that make it any clearer??? "If you ask for my opinion or perception, kindly don’t disparage me when I give it to you." – Elisabeth, of Ravensong

Response:

I agree that most of the ppl here, most of the time, are tolerant of how other ppl express themselves.  I *don’t* agree with you that the ppl don’t want to hear about anger and su*cidal thoughts.  I think that this person would get much caring and concern if/when she spoke of anger and su*cial thoughts.  Most ppl want to help with that imo.  They’re familiar with those feelings. However, when someone comes here saying that they’re going to k*ll themselves, what is a person supposed to do??  There’s plenty we can say if they’re very angry and "thinking" of su*cide, but when they say that their mind is made up, what are we supposed to do?  I personally find hearing this "threat" very triggering, and feel helpless.  What can we do??  I feel terrible when I hear someone speak this way, and I all I can do is just sit here reading this stuff, and not being able to act or help. Perhaps there can be a "rule" of sorts, that we all loosely agree upon:  that we can bring our anger, hurts, feeling of su*cide here, to let ppl hear, and perhaps give feedback. When someone writes, and I papraphrase, "I’m all through, I’m going to do it"… what are we supposed to do with that?   I don’t care *how* upset, depressed any of us are feeling, there imo should be an unwritten (or written) rule that we don’t threaten su*cide.  I still believe that when ppl threaten, it’s manipulative, exploitive and attention getting. Please understand that this does not mean that I don’t care or don’t feel for the person.  I worry, but it’s just not right to do this to the rest of us.(imo) Nahanton – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -maybe it isn’t possible for someone who is trapped in deep, death-dealing pain to separate hirself from it enough to calmly and objectively point to it and say "this is a problem, please help me with it."  maybe sie is able only to speak the pain ~itself~ and not speak ~about~ the pain. most of the people here, most of the time, are tolerant of how other people express themselves. not so when it comes to anger and su*cidal thoughts. it’s ok to come here and talk about being or having been angry or su*cidal but it’s not ok to come here and actually ~be~ angry or su*cidal. in these two areas we seem to expect people to have healed enough, learned enough communication skills, and developed enough control to ~already~ have a handle on the problem before they come here with it.  that doesn’t seem any fairer than posting a su*cide threat that nobody can do anything about. tess v. I, on the other hand get really p*ssed off when someone writes in here and threatens su*cide.  It is incredibally manipulative.  What are we supposed to do???  D*amn it, if you’re gonna k*ll yourself, than do it, we can’t stop it or intervene.  If you’re going through a hard time, and you need our help, ie: "I’m having su*cidal thoughts, can someone please talk to me.  I need your help."  That’s something that speaks to all of us. I think *that* person would get a  bunch of mail trying to be of some help. This other stuff is just attention getting and exploitive imo and triggering to say the least. Nahanton —– Original Message —– Newsgroups: alt.support.dissociation Sent: Monday, July 16, 2001 5:09 AM On the contrary. I am not angry with them at all. In fact, I don’t believe I even know them. I get a little miffed in general when people post vague allusions to s*icide because I think that in a way it is a little retraumating(and triggering for me personally) and just a little manipulative. Spoilered for talk of s*icide and manipulation. * * * * * * * * * * My mother used to stand in front of me and hold a razor to her wrist. If I tried to stop her, I didn’t care enough about her to wrestle with her and take it away. If I didn’t try to stop her, I didn’t love her. These situations always leave me somewhat paralyzed and not knowing how to respond. Vanessa : o( Very sad and yes, manipulative what your mom did. So sad. ( Sierra of TN wee the **ck does that mean? Vanessa "wee" the f*ck? we’ll take care of it. you won’t be bothered by her it MEANS that we’ve got plans for her that will _erase_ her from the outside world, so she won’t be disturbing the comfortable little world you got going here anymore. that make it any clearer???

Response:

I, on the other hand get really p*ssed off when someone writes in here and threatens su*cide.  It is incredibally manipulative.  What are we supposed to do???  D*amn it, if you’re gonna k*ll yourself, than do it, we can’t stop it or intervene.  If you’re going through a hard time, and you need our help, ie: "I’m having su*cidal thoughts, can someone please talk to me.  I need your help."  That’s something that speaks to all of us. I think *that* person would get a  bunch of mail trying to be of some help. This other stuff is just attention getting and exploitive imo and triggering to say the least. Nahanton – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text —— Original Message —– Newsgroups: alt.support.dissociation Sent: Monday, July 16, 2001 5:09 AM On the contrary. I am not angry with them at all. In fact, I don’t believe I even know them. I get a little miffed in general when people post vague allusions to s*icide because I think that in a way it is a little retraumating(and triggering for me personally) and just a little manipulative. Spoilered for talk of s*icide and manipulation. * * * * * * * * * * My mother used to stand in front of me and hold a razor to her wrist. If I tried to stop her, I didn’t care enough about her to wrestle with her and take it away. If I didn’t try to stop her, I didn’t love her. These situations always leave me somewhat paralyzed and not knowing how to respond. Vanessa : o( Very sad and yes, manipulative what your mom did. So sad. ( Sierra of TN wee the **ck does that mean? Vanessa "wee" the f*ck? we’ll take care of it. you won’t be bothered by her it MEANS that we’ve got plans for her that will _erase_ her from the outside world, so she won’t be disturbing the comfortable little world you got going here anymore. that make it any clearer???

Response:

Hmm.. I can certainly relate to this. Vanessa

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I, on the other hand get really p*ssed off when someone writes in here and threatens su*cide.  It is incredibally manipulative.  What are we supposed to do???  D*amn it, if you’re gonna k*ll yourself, than do it, we can’t stop it or intervene.  If you’re going through a hard time, and you need our help, ie: "I’m having su*cidal thoughts, can someone please talk to me.  I need your help."  That’s something that speaks to all of us. I think *that* person would get a  bunch of mail trying to be of some help. This other stuff is just attention getting and exploitive imo and triggering to say the least. Nahanton —– Original Message —– Newsgroups: alt.support.dissociation Sent: Monday, July 16, 2001 5:09 AM On the contrary. I am not angry with them at all. In fact, I don’t believe I even know them. I get a little miffed in general when people post vague allusions to s*icide because I think that in a way it is a little retraumating(and triggering for me personally) and just a little manipulative. Spoilered for talk of s*icide and manipulation. * * * * * * * * * * My mother used to stand in front of me and hold a razor to her wrist. If I tried to stop her, I didn’t care enough about her to wrestle with her and take it away. If I didn’t try to stop her, I didn’t love her. These situations always leave me somewhat paralyzed and not knowing how to respond. Vanessa : o( Very sad and yes, manipulative what your mom did. So sad. ( Sierra of TN wee the **ck does that mean? Vanessa "wee" the f*ck? we’ll take care of it. you won’t be bothered by her it MEANS that we’ve got plans for her that will _erase_ her from the outside world, so she won’t be disturbing the comfortable little world you got going here anymore. that make it any clearer???

Response:

So, my response came from a triggered space. If I offended or put on the defense the poster, I apologize to Ravensong for that. It was not my intention, I do, however, stand by my post and acknowledge that you are not responsible for my reactions anymore than I am responsible for yours. Vanessa In essence, Thanks mosaic for your acknowledgment.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – —– Original Message —– Newsgroups: alt.support.dissociation Sent: Monday, July 16, 2001 5:09 AM On the contrary. I am not angry with them at all. In fact, I don’t believe I even know them. I get a little miffed in general when people post vague allusions to s*icide because I think that in a way it is a little retraumating(and triggering for me personally) and just a little manipulative. Spoilered for talk of s*icide and manipulation. * * * * * * * * * * My mother used to stand in front of me and hold a razor to her wrist. If I tried to stop her, I didn’t care enough about her to wrestle with her and take it away. If I didn’t try to stop her, I didn’t love her. These situations always leave me somewhat paralyzed and not knowing how to respond. Vanessa : o( Very sad and yes, manipulative what your mom did. So sad. ( Sierra of TN Can the two of you forgive me for this? The following exchange has me roflol. I mean, I can see that both of you are angry and hurting and stuff, and I hope you feel better, and I’ll listen and talk with both of you, but, what can anyone do with "wee the **ck?" "wee the rock?" "wee the pick?" "wee the lick?" "wee the dock?" "wee the nick?" "wee the luck?" "wee the lack?" "wee the sack?" "wee the pack?" "wee the sock?" "wee the duck?" "wee the tack?" "wee the lock?" "wee the muck?" "wee the rack?" I’m running out. trill p.s. Diane, what’s going on? Can you tell us anything that might have happened that flipped you out so bad as to threaten your safety? p.p.s. Way below everything else here, I’m posting a raunchy joke about the current U.S.A. presidential administration. No bad words, unless you are disturbed by thinking of anyone’s last name in those positions. wee the **ck does that mean? Vanessa "wee" the f*ck? we’ll take care of it. you won’t be bothered by her it MEANS that we’ve got plans for her that will _erase_ her from the outside world, so she won’t be disturbing the comfortable little world you got going here anymore. that make it any clearer??? "If you ask for my opinion or perception, kindly don’t disparage me when I give it to you." – Elisabeth, of Ravensong okay, here is my joke, after a little spoiler 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 "wee the ch*ney?" — For more information about this posting service, contact: If you want an anonymous account, visit our sign-up page: http://asarian-host.net/emailform.html

Response:

Point taken and a very good point indeed!!! Vanessa

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – maybe it isn’t possible for someone who is trapped in deep, death-dealing pain to separate hirself from it enough to calmly and objectively point to it and say "this is a problem, please help me with it."  maybe sie is able only to speak the pain ~itself~ and not speak ~about~ the pain. most of the people here, most of the time, are tolerant of how other people express themselves. not so when it comes to anger and su*cidal thoughts. it’s ok to come here and talk about being or having been angry or su*cidal but it’s not ok to come here and actually ~be~ angry or su*cidal. in these two areas we seem to expect people to have healed enough, learned enough communication skills, and developed enough control to ~already~ have a handle on the problem before they come here with it.  that doesn’t seem any fairer than posting a su*cide threat that nobody can do anything about. tess v.

Response:

I hope you are right too. Vanessa

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – just my own thought, not even worth the $0.02 normally associated therewith…but it sounded more to me like the "part" that normally posted here was to be prevented access to the outside-system world, not that the system would cease functioning.  Could be wrong.  HTH.  HIR (Hope I’m Right). Luc, for dyenths

Response:

maybe it isn’t possible for someone who is trapped in deep, death-dealing pain to separate hirself from it enough to calmly and objectively point to it and say "this is a problem, please help me with it."  maybe sie is able only to speak the pain ~itself~ and not speak ~about~ the pain. most of the people here, most of the time, are tolerant of how other people express themselves. not so when it comes to anger and su*cidal thoughts. it’s ok to come here and talk about being or having been angry or su*cidal but it’s not ok to come here and actually ~be~ angry or su*cidal. in these two areas we seem to expect people to have healed enough, learned enough communication skills, and developed enough control to ~already~ have a handle on the problem before they come here with it.  that doesn’t seem any fairer than posting a su*cide threat that nobody can do anything about. tess v.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I, on the other hand get really p*ssed off when someone writes in here and threatens su*cide.  It is incredibally manipulative.  What are we supposed to do???  D*amn it, if you’re gonna k*ll yourself, than do it, we can’t stop it or intervene.  If you’re going through a hard time, and you need our help, ie: "I’m having su*cidal thoughts, can someone please talk to me.  I need your help."  That’s something that speaks to all of us. I think *that* person would get a  bunch of mail trying to be of some help. This other stuff is just attention getting and exploitive imo and triggering to say the least. Nahanton —– Original Message —– Newsgroups: alt.support.dissociation Sent: Monday, July 16, 2001 5:09 AM On the contrary. I am not angry with them at all. In fact, I don’t believe I even know them. I get a little miffed in general when people post vague allusions to s*icide because I think that in a way it is a little retraumating(and triggering for me personally) and just a little manipulative. Spoilered for talk of s*icide and manipulation. * * * * * * * * * * My mother used to stand in front of me and hold a razor to her wrist. If I tried to stop her, I didn’t care enough about her to wrestle with her and take it away. If I didn’t try to stop her, I didn’t love her. These situations always leave me somewhat paralyzed and not knowing how to respond. Vanessa : o( Very sad and yes, manipulative what your mom did. So sad. ( Sierra of TN wee the **ck does that mean? Vanessa "wee" the f*ck? we’ll take care of it. you won’t be bothered by her it MEANS that we’ve got plans for her that will _erase_ her from the outside world, so she won’t be disturbing the comfortable little world you got going here anymore. that make it any clearer???

Response:

response is from blue – my own "dark below" contingent. don’t read if it mightn’t be safe.

we know she doesn’t matter to you.  we know some of you

are angry with her and h*te her.  it’s ok now.  we’ll take care of it.  you won’t be bothered by her ever again here. those of the Dark Below, of Ravensong

look, my personal take on this kinda thing is this:  if those silly fools inside of me want to spill their guts all over the page, and be shown as the puling wimps they are, it just makes my job easier.  If they *prove* to the world how ridiculously weak and stupid they are, maybe they’ll believe me when I tell them the same thing. <and, hey, if their words *aren’t* met with ridicule, anger and h8red, they just have to keep trying, right?  keep putting more and more junk out there, until someone finally tells ‘em to shut up. I haven’t heard anyone tell you to shut up.  I’m certainly not gonna. blue <and Jenna for dyenths <…worried about diane… "If you ask for my opinion or perception, kindly don’t

disparage me when I give – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – it to you." – Elisabeth, of Ravensong

Response:

just my own thought, not even worth the $0.02 normally associated therewith…but it sounded more to me like the "part" that normally posted here was to be prevented access to the outside-system world, not that the system would cease functioning.  Could be wrong.  HTH.  HIR (Hope I’m Right). Luc, for dyenths

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Is this a s**cide plan? I hope it isn’t. I really do. Did I give the impression that I was bothered by her? What do you know about my world? Vanessa wee the **ck does that mean? Vanessa "wee" the f*ck? we’ll take care of it.  you won’t be bothered by her it MEANS that we’ve got plans for her that will _erase_ her from the outside world, so she won’t be disturbing the comfortable little world you got going here anymore.  that make it any clearer??? "If you ask for my opinion or perception, kindly don’t disparage me when I give it to you." – Elisabeth, of Ravensong

Response:

Hi Tess… I don’t think that we’re very far off from one another on this.  Please scroll: I agree that most of the ppl here, most of the time, are tolerant of how other ppl express themselves.  I *don’t* agree with you that the ppl don’t want to hear about anger and su*cidal thoughts. ok, first, there’s a distinction i’m making here that i want to be sure is clear.  i think that people don’t mind hearing ~about~ anger and su*cidal thoughts.  i think they ~do~ mind having to experience that anger and su*cidality firsthand when it’s brought here in its raw, original form.

Yes, I do agree with you here. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -here’s an example.  say i’m angry at some people here, and i come here and say "i’m angry at persons a, b, and c because i feel misunderstood and attacked about what i said in thread x."  i’ve stepped aside from my anger and am talking ~about~ it.  people would probably respond with sympathy and understanding, even persons a, b, and c. but if i’m not able to distance myself from my anger enough for that kind of objective expression, instead i might come here and say "you people are just like my foo, i can’t even say one word without getting punished for it, and you can all go jump in a lake because i don’t care if you live or d*e." i think only a very few people would still be sympathetic and understanding.

I wasn’t talking about what you refer to above. I was talking about the anger that drives ppl to threaten su*cide.  We’ll always have disagreements and anger because someone can’t see the other’s side.  I was specifically referring to the kind of anger that is the first step to su*cide. if we’re still talking about the same thing, then i’ll agree to disagree with you.

I’m happy to do that. :O) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I think that this person would get much caring and concern if/when she spoke of anger and su*cial thoughts. Most ppl want to help with that imo.  They’re familiar with those feelings. yes.  unfortunately . However, when someone comes here saying that they’re going to k*ll themselves, what is a person supposed to do??  There’s plenty we can say if they’re very angry and "thinking" of su*cide, but when they say that their mind is made up, what are we supposed to do?  I personally find hearing this "threat" very triggering, and feel helpless.  What can we do??  I feel terrible when I hear someone speak this way, and I all I can do is just sit here reading this stuff, and not being able to act or help. Perhaps there can be a "rule" of sorts, that we all loosely agree upon: that we can bring our anger, hurts, feeling of su*cide here, to let ppl hear, and perhaps give feedback. When someone writes, and I papraphrase, "I’m all through, I’m going to do it"… what are we supposed to do with that? I don’t care *how* upset, depressed any of us are feeling, there imo should be an unwritten (or written) rule that we don’t threaten su*cide. i think it’s already unwritten; it’s been discussed here more than once before.  maybe it’s time to write it down.

Oh yes, Tess, I think it should be written down if everyone is agreeable to this. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I still believe that when ppl threaten, it’s manipulative, exploitive and attention getting. Please understand that this does not mean that I don’t care or don’t feel for the person.  I worry, but it’s just not right to do this to the rest of us.(imo) and that brings us to the structure and parameters of the group.  it’s a support group, not a therapy group.  do we have the right to ask people to speak the language of therapy here?  (by the language of therapy i mean using "i" statements, stating the problem objectively, using adjectives and not attitude to convey feelings, like that.)  i don’t know. i have more i’d like to say (and i’d like to listen to more) because this is a complex question, but i probably won’t be able to.  i’ve had to rush through this message else i’ll be late for work, and i’m leaving tomorrow and will be out of town and away from computers for a few days.  rats. sorry.

When you get back, perhaps we can talk about it more.  Maybe some others here would like to get their 2 cents in.  I’d be really interested in hearing what ppl have to say regarding this.   I have to say this:  If I read here that someone was going to commit su*cide, my first inclination, if I knew who they were, and where they lived, would be to call the police.  Last year, I arrived home from the supermarket, and found a message on my machine to the effect that my closest friend was informing me that she had taken 90 pills.  That she was sorry, that she considered me her best friend.  I called the police in the town where she was living.  They got to her in time.  When I went to see her in the hospital, I was enraged!!!  What would have happened if I hadn’t come straight home from the market?  What if I had stopped off somewhere?  If that had happened, and she died, it would’ve been on my shoulders for the rest of my life.  How dare she put that kind of responsibility on another person?  I told her that if she _truly_ wanted to take her l*fe, then do it without making announcements, so that other people wouldn’t need to walk around with guilt:  "What if….."  I’m sorry if I sound angry and upset.  This happened a year ago, and I still have nightmares about it.  Maybe that’s why I’m coming on so strong with this. Nahanton – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -tess v. Nahanton maybe it isn’t possible for someone who is trapped in deep, death-dealing pain to separate hirself from it enough to calmly and objectively point to it and say "this is a problem, please help me with it."  maybe sie is able only to speak the pain ~itself~ and not speak ~about~ the pain. most of the people here, most of the time, are tolerant of how other people express themselves. not so when it comes to anger and su*cidal thoughts. it’s ok to come here and talk about being or having been angry or su*cidal but it’s not ok to come here and actually ~be~ angry or su*cidal. in these two areas we seem to expect people to have healed enough, learned enough communication skills, and developed enough control to ~already~ have a handle on the problem before they come here with it.  that doesn’t seem any fairer than posting a su*cide threat that nobody can do anything about. tess v. I, on the other hand get really p*ssed off when someone writes in here and threatens su*cide.  It is incredibally manipulative.  What are we supposed to do???  D*amn it, if you’re gonna k*ll yourself, than do it, we can’t stop it or intervene.  If you’re going through a hard time, and you need our help, ie: "I’m having su*cidal thoughts, can someone please talk to me.  I need your help."  That’s something that speaks to all of us. I think *that* person would get a  bunch of mail trying to be of some help. This other stuff is just attention getting and exploitive imo and triggering to say the least. Nahanton —– Original Message —– Newsgroups: alt.support.dissociation Sent: Monday, July 16, 2001 5:09 AM On the contrary. I am not angry with them at all. In fact, I don’t believe I even know them. I get a little miffed in general when people post vague allusions to s*icide because I think that in a way it is a little retraumating(and triggering for me personally) and just a little manipulative. Spoilered for talk of s*icide and manipulation. * * * * * * * * * * My mother used to stand in front of me and hold a razor to her wrist. If I tried to stop her, I didn’t care enough about her to wrestle with her and take it away. If I didn’t try to stop her, I didn’t love her. These situations always leave me somewhat paralyzed and not knowing how to respond. Vanessa : o( Very sad and yes, manipulative what your mom did. So sad. ( Sierra of TN wee the **ck does that mean? Vanessa "wee" the f*ck? we’ll take care of it. you won’t be bothered by her it MEANS that we’ve got plans for her that will _erase_ her from the outside world, so she won’t be disturbing the comfortable little world you got going here anymore. that make it any clearer???

Response:

I agree that most of the ppl here, most of the time, are tolerant of how other ppl express themselves.  I *don’t* agree with you that the ppl don’t want to hear about anger and su*cidal thoughts.

ok, first, there’s a distinction i’m making here that i want to be sure is clear.  i think that people don’t mind hearing ~about~ anger and su*cidal thoughts.  i think they ~do~ mind having to experience that anger and su*cidality firsthand when it’s brought here in its raw, original form. here’s an example.  say i’m angry at some people here, and i come here and say "i’m angry at persons a, b, and c because i feel misunderstood and attacked about what i said in thread x."  i’ve stepped aside from my anger and am talking ~about~ it.  people would probably respond with sympathy and understanding, even persons a, b, and c. but if i’m not able to distance myself from my anger enough for that kind of objective expression, instead i might come here and say "you people are just like my foo, i can’t even say one word without getting punished for it, and you can all go jump in a lake because i don’t care if you live or d*e."  i think only a very few people would still be sympathetic and understanding. if we’re still talking about the same thing, then i’ll agree to disagree with you. I think that this person would get much caring and concern if/when she spoke of anger and su*cial thoughts. Most ppl want to help with that imo.  They’re familiar with those feelings.

yes.  unfortunately . – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – However, when someone comes here saying that they’re going to k*ll themselves, what is a person supposed to do??  There’s plenty we can say if they’re very angry and "thinking" of su*cide, but when they say that their mind is made up, what are we supposed to do?  I personally find hearing this "threat" very triggering, and feel helpless.  What can we do??  I feel terrible when I hear someone speak this way, and I all I can do is just sit here reading this stuff, and not being able to act or help. Perhaps there can be a "rule" of sorts, that we all loosely agree upon: that we can bring our anger, hurts, feeling of su*cide here, to let ppl hear, and perhaps give feedback. When someone writes, and I papraphrase, "I’m all through, I’m going to do it"… what are we supposed to do with that? I don’t care *how* upset, depressed any of us are feeling, there imo should be an unwritten (or written) rule that we don’t threaten su*cide.

i think it’s already unwritten; it’s been discussed here more than once before.  maybe it’s time to write it down. I still believe that when ppl threaten, it’s manipulative, exploitive and attention getting. Please understand that this does not mean that I don’t care or don’t feel for the person.  I worry, but it’s just not right to do this to the rest of us.(imo)

and that brings us to the structure and parameters of the group.  it’s a support group, not a therapy group.  do we have the right to ask people to speak the language of therapy here?  (by the language of therapy i mean using "i" statements, stating the problem objectively, using adjectives and not attitude to convey feelings, like that.)  i don’t know. i have more i’d like to say (and i’d like to listen to more) because this is a complex question, but i probably won’t be able to.  i’ve had to rush through this message else i’ll be late for work, and i’m leaving tomorrow and will be out of town and away from computers for a few days.  rats. sorry. tess v. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Nahanton maybe it isn’t possible for someone who is trapped in deep, death-dealing pain to separate hirself from it enough to calmly and objectively point to it and say "this is a problem, please help me with it."  maybe sie is able only to speak the pain ~itself~ and not speak ~about~ the pain. most of the people here, most of the time, are tolerant of how other people express themselves. not so when it comes to anger and su*cidal thoughts. it’s ok to come here and talk about being or having been angry or su*cidal but it’s not ok to come here and actually ~be~ angry or su*cidal. in these two areas we seem to expect people to have healed enough, learned enough communication skills, and developed enough control to ~already~ have a handle on the problem before they come here with it.  that doesn’t seem any fairer than posting a su*cide threat that nobody can do anything about. tess v. I, on the other hand get really p*ssed off when someone writes in here and threatens su*cide.  It is incredibally manipulative.  What are we supposed to do???  D*amn it, if you’re gonna k*ll yourself, than do it, we can’t stop it or intervene.  If you’re going through a hard time, and you need our help, ie: "I’m having su*cidal thoughts, can someone please talk to me.  I need your help."  That’s something that speaks to all of us. I think *that* person would get a  bunch of mail trying to be of some help. This other stuff is just attention getting and exploitive imo and triggering to say the least. Nahanton —– Original Message —– Newsgroups: alt.support.dissociation Sent: Monday, July 16, 2001 5:09 AM On the contrary. I am not angry with them at all. In fact, I don’t believe I even know them. I get a little miffed in general when people post vague allusions to s*icide because I think that in a way it is a little retraumating(and triggering for me personally) and just a little manipulative. Spoilered for talk of s*icide and manipulation. * * * * * * * * * * My mother used to stand in front of me and hold a razor to her wrist. If I tried to stop her, I didn’t care enough about her to wrestle with her and take it away. If I didn’t try to stop her, I didn’t love her. These situations always leave me somewhat paralyzed and not knowing how to respond. Vanessa : o( Very sad and yes, manipulative what your mom did. So sad. ( Sierra of TN wee the **ck does that mean? Vanessa "wee" the f*ck? we’ll take care of it. you won’t be bothered by her it MEANS that we’ve got plans for her that will _erase_ her from the outside world, so she won’t be disturbing the comfortable little world you got going here anymore. that make it any clearer???

Response:

This, the stuff stated eloquently and compassionately by Tess Valerian, is pretty much what I think and how I feel about the whole matter.     It does disturb me to read what seems like a threat, promise, or announcement of s**cde.  It further disturbs me to read such things over and over as time passes from the same person.  Otoh, I think that person, those persons, who write(s) such things most likely is/are  unable to express hir (their) needs in another, more responsible, fashion.  Therefore I try to exercise patience.     I’ve known and do know people who, most of the time, are charming, mature, responsible, wonderful, kind, talented, brilliant, and accomplished individuals, but occasionally do some bizarre act of anger such as tossing a large object through a window or assaulting, if only briefly and not too seriously, an individual for whom sie cares greatly.     Many of us have an interesting and sometimes provocative range of behaviors.  Probably all of us want to exercise more command over ourselves and live up to our highest ideals of how humans should be at all times.     It seems to me that all fall down at some time.  And I hope that the rest of us are willing to help each other get back up. trill

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – maybe it isn’t possible for someone who is trapped in deep, death-dealing pain to separate hirself from it enough to calmly and objectively point to it and say "this is a problem, please help me with it."  maybe sie is able only to speak the pain ~itself~ and not speak ~about~ the pain. most of the people here, most of the time, are tolerant of how other people express themselves. not so when it comes to anger and su*cidal thoughts. it’s ok to come here and talk about being or having been angry or su*cidal but it’s not ok to come here and actually ~be~ angry or su*cidal. in these two areas we seem to expect people to have healed enough, learned enough communication skills, and developed enough control to ~already~ have a handle on the problem before they come here with it.  that doesn’t seem any fairer than posting a su*cide threat that nobody can do anything about. tess v. I, on the other hand get really p*ssed off when someone writes in here and threatens su*cide.  It is incredibally manipulative.  What are we supposed to do???  D*amn it, if you’re gonna k*ll yourself, than do it, we can’t stop it or intervene.  If you’re going through a hard time, and you need our help, ie: "I’m having su*cidal thoughts, can someone please talk to me.  I need your help."  That’s something that speaks to all of us. I think *that* person would get a  bunch of mail trying to be of some help. This other stuff is just attention getting and exploitive imo and triggering to say the least. Nahanton —– Original Message —– Newsgroups: alt.support.dissociation Sent: Monday, July 16, 2001 5:09 AM On the contrary. I am not angry with them at all. In fact, I don’t believe I even know them. I get a little miffed in general when people post vague allusions to s*icide because I think that in a way it is a little retraumating(and triggering for me personally) and just a little manipulative. Spoilered for talk of s*icide and manipulation. * * * * * * * * * * My mother used to stand in front of me and hold a razor to her wrist. If I tried to stop her, I didn’t care enough about her to wrestle with her and take it away. If I didn’t try to stop her, I didn’t love her. These situations always leave me somewhat paralyzed and not knowing how to respond. Vanessa : o( Very sad and yes, manipulative what your mom did. So sad. ( Sierra of TN wee the **ck does that mean? Vanessa "wee" the f*ck? we’ll take care of it. you won’t be bothered by her it MEANS that we’ve got plans for her that will _erase_ her from the outside world, so she won’t be disturbing the comfortable little world you got going here anymore. that make it any clearer???

Response:

hi, tess

[...] and that brings us to the structure and parameters of the group.  it’s a support group, not a therapy group.  do we have the right to ask people to speak the language of therapy here?  (by the language of therapy i mean using "i" statements, stating the problem objectively, using adjectives and not attitude to convey feelings, like that.)  i don’t know.

i don’t think we can (or need to) ask people to speak the language of therapy here.  but i do think that it’s not unreasonable to let people know the effect of their words on us.  i don’t think it’s very supportive *not* to tell someone that *how* they’re communicating is making me angry or turning me off or whatever.  i think that message can be given without attacking.  but if no one gives that message then the person is going to continue to affect others in the same way.  and if they don’t really know how they’re affecting others (because no one has told them), then they don’t have to *choice* to try to change what they are doing.  if they do know, they can choose to try to make some changes, or they can choose to continue as is.  this is not to say that changes are necessarily easy to make.  they aren’t.  but i do think it’s supportive to give people accurate feedback so that they can make informed choices for themselves. — astri – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -i have more i’d like to say (and i’d like to listen to more) because this is a complex question, but i probably won’t be able to.  i’ve had to rush through this message else i’ll be late for work, and i’m leaving tomorrow and will be out of town and away from computers for a few days.  rats. sorry. tess v.

Response:

Hi astri…..pls scroll below: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -hi, tess [...] and that brings us to the structure and parameters of the group.  it’s a support group, not a therapy group.  do we have the right to ask people to speak the language of therapy here?  (by the language of therapy i mean using "i" statements, stating the problem objectively, using adjectives and not attitude to convey feelings, like that.)  i don’t know. i don’t think we can (or need to) ask people to speak the language of therapy here.  but i do think that it’s not unreasonable to let people know the effect of their words on us.  i don’t think it’s very supportive *not* to tell someone that *how* they’re communicating is making me angry or turning me off or whatever.  i think that message can be given without attacking.  but if no one gives that message then the person is going to continue to affect others in the same way.  and if they don’t really know how they’re affecting others (because no one has told them), then they don’t have to *choice* to try to change what they are doing.  if they do know, they can choose to try to make some changes, or they can choose to continue as is.  this is not to say that changes are necessarily easy to make.  they aren’t.  but i do think it’s supportive to give people accurate feedback so that they can make informed choices for themselves. — astri

astri….  I wish that I had been able to express how I feel about this topic as well as you.  I agree with you completely, and thank you for expressing it so well. Nahanton – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -i have more i’d like to say (and i’d like to listen to more) because this is a complex question, but i probably won’t be able to.  i’ve had to rush through this message else i’ll be late for work, and i’m leaving tomorrow and will be out of town and away from computers for a few days.  rats. sorry. tess v.

Response:

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• what med; can I ask tomorrow?
• Need advice from folks who know about SSRIs
• Don't know what to do–stinkin' thinkin' ahead
• Depressing day
• Margrove..Jackie..anybody..med question – help.